From owner-ibis Tue Mar 31 17:50:59 1998 Received: from aba.nsrc.nus.sg (aba.nsrc.nus.sg [137.132.15.2]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA27091 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:50:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by aba.nsrc.nus.sg (8.8.5/8.8.4) id JAA29793; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:47:18 +0800 (SGT) Received: from wangl.nsrc.nus.sg(137.132.15.77) by aba.nsrc.nus.sg via smap (V1.3) id sma029786; Wed Apr 1 09:46:54 1998 Message-ID: <35219CCC.8F2C452F@nsrc.nus.edu.sg> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:47:56 +0800 From: Wang Lin Reply-To: wangl@nsrc.nus.sg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org, si-list@silab.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: ibis,si-list,looking for ibis models Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Do you have the IBIS models of Rambus-based chips below: 1)2D/3D graphics accelerator chip,for example,CL-GD5465. 2)RDRAM Model of any chips in this library is okay, for I just use it for an experiment. Thank you ! Lisa From owner-ibis Tue Mar 31 21:54:08 1998 Received: from penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [194.237.142.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA00394 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:54:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from eede.ericsson.se (eede.eede.ericsson.se [164.48.127.16]) by penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.7.5/8.7.3/glacier-1.12) with SMTP id HAA11098 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:51:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from sun129.eu (sun129.eede.ericsson.se) by eede.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23181; Wed, 1 Apr 98 07:52:58 +0200 Received: by sun129.eu (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA00646; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:52:57 +0200 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:52:57 +0200 From: eedhodi@eede.ericsson.se (Holger Dierks) Message-Id: <199804010552.HAA00646@sun129.eu> To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: unsubscribe X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII From owner-ibis Wed Apr 1 01:19:48 1998 Received: from jester.ti.com (jester.ti.com [192.94.94.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id BAA03459 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 01:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from totoro.tdc.tijp.ti.com ([134.183.198.39]) by jester.ti.com (8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13148; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 03:16:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com (mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com [134.183.199.26]) by totoro.tdc.tijp.ti.com (8.7.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA16988; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:16:01 +0900 (JST) Received: (from tkgm@localhost) by mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com (8.7.1/3.3W6) id SAA15589; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:15:59 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:15:59 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199804010915.SAA15589@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> From: Akihiro Takegama To: crokusek@qdt.com Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: [Re: About WARNING of ibischk2] Chris, thank you very much for your quick response and answer. I would like to confirm my issue. # Is it crosspoint 50 Ohm slope against the value of [Pulldown] + [Gndclamp] ? (I) | * [Pulldown] + [GNDclamp] 0.6A x **** | x ** | x * | * | * ^ x | * | x slope = 50 Ohm | * | x *--------|-----------x--------- 0.0V | 3.0 V (V) (0.95V) ##### - Regards, A.Takegma > ************************************ > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > ************************************ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:01:46 -0800 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Akihiro Takegama Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 References: <199803311308.WAA12838@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Akihiro, The ibishk2 program is checking the first and last point of your Rising and Falling AC Waveforms against the DC VI curves and given test load (50 Ohms). For your case the message indicates that the first point given in the Rising Waveform table is .74V. If you were to plot the intersection of a 50 Ohm to 3V load line (slope = 50 V/I) and the given DC VI curve you would see that they interesect at .95V (this is fist value in [3] below). So since abs(.95 - .74) > 2% * (3 - .74) .21 > .045 The checker will print a warning. The reason for the check is that the first and last points of the AC waveforms are supposed to be the stable DC value when driving the given load. Chris Rokusek Viewlogic Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > To: IBIS-users, > > Hello, I'm making the IBIS model. But I am confused at ibischk. > Could you support me ? > > I have one question. > > 1 ) I made the IBIS model within "Rising Waveform" and "Falling > Waveform" and I ran the ibischk2. But many warning appeares > it's IBIS model, which like as below. > Could you please tell me how to calculate the value [3]. ? > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WARNING - Model 'inout': MIN AC Rising Endpoints ( 0.74V, 3.00V) not within > ------------- > [1] > > 0.045V (2%) of ( 0.95V, 3.00V) on VI curves for 50 Ohms to 3V > ----------- ---------------- > [2] [3] > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - Regards, > A.Takegama > > ************************************ > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > ************************************ > ------- End of forwarded message ------- ------- End of forwarded message ------- From owner-ibis Wed Apr 1 03:12:23 1998 Received: from exchange2.via.com.tw ([202.145.217.249]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id DAA05236 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 03:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by exchange2.via.com.tw with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:09:38 +0800 Message-ID: <4399E411E49ED111973000A0C92BD8A014223B@exchange2.via.com.tw> From: Justin Yu To: "'ibis_users@vhdl.org'" Subject: Subscribe! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:09:36 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain ===================================== Have a great day... Justin Yu at VIA Tech. Justinyu@via.com.tw http://www.via.com.tw ===================================== From owner-ibis Wed Apr 1 05:34:49 1998 Received: from smtp3.ny.us.ibm.com (smtp3.ny.us.ibm.com [198.133.22.42]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id FAA07774 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 05:34:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay1.server.ibm.com (relay1.server.ibm.com [9.14.2.98]) by smtp3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11642 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:25:26 -0500 Received: from US.IBM.COM (d01lms03.pok.ibm.com [9.117.30.8]) by relay1.server.ibm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA16684 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:29:44 -0500 Received: by US.IBM.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 2.0) with snapi via D01AU018 id 5010300016569501; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:29:33 -0500 From: Marc Faucher To: Subject: unsubscribe Message-ID: <5010300016569501000002L012*@MHS> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:29:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Regards - Marc Faucher STSM, x86 Business Unit TIE: 446-6704 TEL:802-769-6704, FAX: x6800 Internet: faucher@us.ibm.com Notes: Marc Faucher/Burlington/IBM@IBMUS From owner-ibis Wed Apr 1 05:46:16 1998 Received: from mailgw.chips.ibm.com (mailgw.chips.ibm.com [192.91.197.8]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id FAA07946 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 05:46:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailrelay.btv.ibm.com (mailrelay.btv.ibm.com [9.66.15.39]) by mailgw.chips.ibm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25284 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:42:40 -0500 Received: from wind.btv.ibm.com (wind.btv.ibm.com [9.66.57.118]) by mailrelay.btv.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA43388 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:42:40 -0500 Received: from inst44b.btv.ibm.com (ehall@localhost) by wind.btv.ibm.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA30670 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:42:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199804011342.IAA30670@wind.btv.ibm.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: ibis-users@eda.org X-Note-Format: RFC822 Subject: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 08:42:38 -0500 From: "Ezra D. Hall" -- unsubscribe From owner-ibis Wed Apr 1 09:35:43 1998 Received: from relay7.UU.NET (relay7.UU.NET [192.48.96.17]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA13126 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from uucp3.uu.net by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: uucp3.uu.net [192.48.96.83]) id QQejgg09576; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:32:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from qdt.UUCP by uucp3.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:32:37 -0500 Received: from hal.UUCP by qdt.viewlogic.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24312; Wed, 1 Apr 98 09:28:06 PST Received: from f14 by qdt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00346; Wed, 1 Apr 98 09:26:28 PST Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Message-Id: <352277AF.41C67EA6@qdt.com> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:21:51 -0800 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Akihiro Takegama Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: [Re: About WARNING of ibischk2] References: <199804010915.SAA15589@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Akihiro, The "LOW" curve used in the DC vs. AC test is the sum of BOTH shunt curves (POWER_Clamp/GND_Clamp) + the Pulldown Curve. Similarly the "HIGH" curve used in the test is the sum of BOTH shunt curves + Pullup Curve. Chris Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > Chris, > thank you very much for your quick response and answer. > > I would like to confirm my issue. > > # Is it crosspoint 50 Ohm slope against the value of [Pulldown] > + [Gndclamp] ? > > > (I) > | * [Pulldown] + [GNDclamp] > 0.6A x **** > | x ** > | x * > | * > | * ^ x > | * | x slope = 50 Ohm > | * | x > *--------|-----------x--------- > 0.0V | 3.0 V (V) > (0.95V) > ##### > > - Regards, > A.Takegma > > ************************************ > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > ************************************ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Sender: crokusek@qdt.com > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:01:46 -0800 > From: Chris Rokusek > Organization: Quad Design Technology > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: Akihiro Takegama > Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 > References: <199803311308.WAA12838@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Akihiro, > > The ibishk2 program is checking the first and last point of your Rising > and Falling AC Waveforms against the DC VI curves and given test load > (50 Ohms). > > For your case the message indicates that the first point given in the > Rising Waveform table is .74V. > > If you were to plot the intersection of a 50 Ohm to 3V load line (slope > = 50 V/I) and the given DC VI curve you would see that they interesect > at .95V (this is fist value in [3] below). > > So since > > abs(.95 - .74) > 2% * (3 - .74) > .21 > .045 > > The checker will print a warning. > > The reason for the check is that the first and last points of the AC > waveforms are supposed to be the stable DC value when driving the given > load. > > Chris Rokusek > Viewlogic > > Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > > > To: IBIS-users, > > > > Hello, I'm making the IBIS model. But I am confused at ibischk. > > Could you support me ? > > > > I have one question. > > > > 1 ) I made the IBIS model within "Rising Waveform" and "Falling > > Waveform" and I ran the ibischk2. But many warning appeares > > it's IBIS model, which like as below. > > Could you please tell me how to calculate the value [3]. ? > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WARNING - Model 'inout': MIN AC Rising Endpoints ( 0.74V, 3.00V) not within > > ------------- > > [1] > > > > 0.045V (2%) of ( 0.95V, 3.00V) on VI curves for 50 Ohms to 3V > > ----------- ---------------- > > [2] [3] > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - Regards, > > A.Takegama > > > > ************************************ > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > ************************************ > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > ------- End of forwarded message ------- From owner-ibis Wed Apr 1 17:41:25 1998 Received: from jester.ti.com (jester.ti.com [192.94.94.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA20658 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:41:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from totoro.tdc.tijp.ti.com ([134.183.198.39]) by jester.ti.com (8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26112; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:38:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com (mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com [134.183.199.26]) by totoro.tdc.tijp.ti.com (8.7.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA15880; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:37:49 +0900 (JST) Received: (from tkgm@localhost) by mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com (8.7.1/3.3W6) id KAA17286; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:37:47 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:37:47 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199804020137.KAA17286@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> From: Akihiro Takegama To: crokusek@qdt.com Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Thanks [Re: Re: [Re: About WARNING of ibischk2]] Chris, thank you very much for you kindness. I understand very well. - Regards, A.Takegama ************************************ * Name : Akihiro Takegama * * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * * Corp. : Texas Instruments * ************************************ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:21:51 -0800 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Akihiro Takegama Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: [Re: About WARNING of ibischk2] References: <199804010915.SAA15589@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Akihiro, The "LOW" curve used in the DC vs. AC test is the sum of BOTH shunt curves (POWER_Clamp/GND_Clamp) + the Pulldown Curve. Similarly the "HIGH" curve used in the test is the sum of BOTH shunt curves + Pullup Curve. Chris Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > Chris, > thank you very much for your quick response and answer. > > I would like to confirm my issue. > > # Is it crosspoint 50 Ohm slope against the value of [Pulldown] > + [Gndclamp] ? > > > (I) > | * [Pulldown] + [GNDclamp] > 0.6A x **** > | x ** > | x * > | * > | * ^ x > | * | x slope = 50 Ohm > | * | x > *--------|-----------x--------- > 0.0V | 3.0 V (V) > (0.95V) > ##### > > - Regards, > A.Takegma > > ************************************ > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > ************************************ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Sender: crokusek@qdt.com > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:01:46 -0800 > From: Chris Rokusek > Organization: Quad Design Technology > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: Akihiro Takegama > Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 > References: <199803311308.WAA12838@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Akihiro, > > The ibishk2 program is checking the first and last point of your Rising > and Falling AC Waveforms against the DC VI curves and given test load > (50 Ohms). > > For your case the message indicates that the first point given in the > Rising Waveform table is .74V. > > If you were to plot the intersection of a 50 Ohm to 3V load line (slope > = 50 V/I) and the given DC VI curve you would see that they interesect > at .95V (this is fist value in [3] below). > > So since > > abs(.95 - .74) > 2% * (3 - .74) > .21 > .045 > > The checker will print a warning. > > The reason for the check is that the first and last points of the AC > waveforms are supposed to be the stable DC value when driving the given > load. > > Chris Rokusek > Viewlogic > > Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > > > To: IBIS-users, > > > > Hello, I'm making the IBIS model. But I am confused at ibischk. > > Could you support me ? > > > > I have one question. > > > > 1 ) I made the IBIS model within "Rising Waveform" and "Falling > > Waveform" and I ran the ibischk2. But many warning appeares > > it's IBIS model, which like as below. > > Could you please tell me how to calculate the value [3]. ? > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WARNING - Model 'inout': MIN AC Rising Endpoints ( 0.74V, 3.00V) not within > > ------------- > > [1] > > > > 0.045V (2%) of ( 0.95V, 3.00V) on VI curves for 50 Ohms to 3V > > ----------- ---------------- > > [2] [3] > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - Regards, > > A.Takegama > > > > ************************************ > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > ************************************ > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > ------- End of forwarded message ------- ------- End of forwarded message ------- From owner-ibis Thu Apr 2 02:39:33 1998 Received: from quartz.apricot.co.uk (quartz.apricot.co.uk [194.73.159.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id CAA28367 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 02:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from amethyst.apricot.mee.com by relay.apricot.mee.com id ab03214; 2 Apr 98 10:18 BST Received: from olorin.apricot.mee.com by amethyst.apricot.mee.com id aa20742; 2 Apr 98 10:05 BST Received: by olorin with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:04:33 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Jeno Varga (MEPCD)" To: "'ibis-users@vhdl.org'" Subject: new user from MEPCD Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:04:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Dear Sirs, My company (MEPCD - Mitsubishi Electric PC Division) recently bought the Veribest CAD system. I am a design engineer of the R&D site at Birmingham, UK. I am just started to learn this new signal analyzer tool from Veribest and the IBIS modeling. I have already find a few IBIS model of integrated circuit (like Intel 443BX chipset) for our new mother design. But I need some help to find model files for some special non vendor specific components like the empty PCI bus connector, any PCI bus card, AGP video card and connector, empty DIMM socket. The new 100MHz local bus design is a very time and tracing critical one and it's very difficult to measure signals on the PCB so the simulation is vital for a reliable product. Could you help me to find this model files please, if you can. Or give me some advice what is the best way to create some accurate model for an empty connector like the PCI one. Regards, Jeno Varga Senior Design Engineer Mitsubishi Electronic PC Division Apricot R&D 2500 The Crescent Birmingham Business Park, Birmingham, B37 7YE UK Tel.: [+44] 121 717-2521 Fax: [+44] 121 717-2600 e-mail: jenov@apricot.mee.com http://www.mitsubishi-computers.com From owner-ibis Thu Apr 2 08:30:09 1998 Received: from bingsun2 (bingsun2.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.6]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA04528 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (bg21359@localhost) by bingsun2 (SMI-8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA03820 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:27:09 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:27:07 -0500 (EST) From: Ming Yin X-Sender: bg21359@bingsun2 To: IBIS Subject: C_comp in s2ibis Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hi, IBIS fans I have a question about the SPICE-IBIS utility s2ibis. In the IBIS COOKBOOK the author says that during extracting data for [Ramp] keyword by simulations the C_comp is included in the circuit. But in the *.spi files produced by s2ibis I can't see the C_comp. Could you tell me why in s2ibis the C_comp is not used? Thanks lot. MingYin From owner-ibis Thu Apr 2 22:06:59 1998 Received: from penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (penguin-ext.wise.edt.ericsson.se [194.237.142.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA16465 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:06:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from emn.ericsson.se (emn.ericsson.se [136.225.76.6]) by penguin.wise.edt.ericsson.se (8.7.5/8.7.3/glacier-1.12) with SMTP id IAA12039 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:03:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc1171 ([164.48.41.18]) by emn.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-EMN-1.1) id AA04177; Fri, 3 Apr 98 08:02:55 +0200 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19980403070257.1bff7dae@emn.ericsson.se> X-Sender: emnmahp@emn.ericsson.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 08:02:57 +0100 To: ibis-users@eda.org From: Mark Heitkamp Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Heitkamp Ericsson Business Mobile Networks BV Hardware Design Engineer Tel: +31 53 4505 754 BCT-HW Development Fax: +31 53 4505 555 P.O. Box 645 E-mail: Mark.Heitkamp@emn.ericsson.se 7500 AP Enschede Memo: EMN.EMNMAHP The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ibis Fri Apr 3 06:03:45 1998 Received: from TYO39.gate.nec.co.jp (TYO39.gate.nec.co.jp [202.247.7.13]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA23798 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsv.nec.co.jp ([192.168.1.203]) by TYO39.gate.nec.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6Wbeta698012219) with ESMTP id XAA00157 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:00:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from askcs69.asic.lsi.nec.co.jp ([133.202.235.32]) by mailsv.nec.co.jp (8.8.8+2.7Wbeta7/3.6Wbeta6-98030317) with ESMTP id XAA03139 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:00:45 +0900 (JST) Received: (from kai@localhost) by askcs69.asic.lsi.nec.co.jp (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.5Wpl7lsi_mx_5.0) id WAA04057; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:52:36 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:52:36 +0900 (JST) From: Kai Koichiro Message-Id: <199804031352.WAA04057@askcs69.asic.lsi.nec.co.jp> To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Question about new Warning from ibischk2+ Chris, I'm sorry I have posted my question to wrong address, and I thank you for your reply. I understand the concept of the warning from ibischk2. But now I have some questions. 1) the value in the expression > abs(.95 - .74) > 2% * (3 - .74) I think .95 means an ideal voltage of endpoint of the waveform. If it is true, is the right expression 2%*(3-.95) ? ^^^ 2) Where is "2 percent" from ? 3) Is the value of "2" rightful ? Could you help me ? K.Kai in NEC kai@lsi.nec.co.jp From owner-ibis Fri Apr 3 06:45:44 1998 Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA24599 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id GAA11753 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:42:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from wombat.cadence.com(158.140.156.35) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma891614565.011750; Fri, 3 Apr 98 06:42:45 -0800 Received: from pc-horner (d158140156178 [158.140.156.178]) by wombat (8.6.8/8.6.8) with SMTP id JAA16821 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:42:43 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980403093711.00a847b0@wombat.cadence.com> X-Sender: horner@wombat.cadence.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 09:37:11 -0500 To: ibis-users@eda.org From: John Horner Subject: subscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" **************************************************************** John Horner Phone: (919)481-6813 Core Compentancy Group Fax: (919)469-9921 Cadence Design Systems VoiceMail: (919)481-6813 113 Edinburgh South, Ste. 100 Email: horner@cadence.com Cary, NC 27511 **************************************************************** From owner-ibis Fri Apr 3 08:55:23 1998 Received: from relay3.UU.NET (relay3.UU.NET [192.48.96.8]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA27055 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:55:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from uucp1.uu.net by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: uucp1.uu.net [192.48.96.81]) id QQejnn11786; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:52:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from qdt.UUCP by uucp1.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:52:23 -0500 Received: from hal.UUCP by qdt.viewlogic.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12001; Fri, 3 Apr 98 08:53:07 PST Received: from f14 by qdt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10764; Fri, 3 Apr 98 08:49:20 PST Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Message-Id: <352511F7.15FB7483@qdt.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 08:44:39 -0800 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Kai Koichiro Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Question about new Warning from ibischk2+ References: <199804031352.WAA04057@askcs69.asic.lsi.nec.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kai, Here are answers to your questions... > I understand the concept of the warning from ibischk2. > But now I have some questions. > > 1) the value in the expression > > > abs(.95 - .74) > 2% * (3 - .74) > > I think .95 means an ideal voltage of endpoint of the waveform. > If it is true, is the right expression 2%*(3-.95) ? > >> If you were to plot the intersection of a 50 Ohm to 3V load line (slope >> = 50 V/I) and the given DC VI curve you would see that they interesect >> at .95V (this is fist value in [3] below). The .95 in the example is mathematically determined from the DC VI curves in the model and the given load. When this value differs from the waveforms endpoints there is a discrepency in the data. Currently the checker takes the 2% times the Vac_high - Vac_low. I agree it might be better to trust the DC vi curves to get the range as your suggested formula says and will suggest this change for next release. However, practically speaking, just thinking about the values it really doesn't appear to matter which range (AC vs. DC) is used. > 2) Where is "2 percent" from ? The IBIS committee agreed that 2% of the range is a reasonable tolerance for IBIS model builders to comply with. The spec says something to the effect "The first and last AC waveform point should be equal to the stable DC values" 2% just allows some tolerance to "equal" > 3) Is the value of "2" rightful ? I ran tests on all .ibs models and found that about 98% of model's passed the test within 1% and they other 2% were off by more than 5%. You may need to lengthen the run time of the AC analysis so that the output becomes stable. If you have too many points, you may need to carefully (in an interlaced fashion) remove some of the points toward the end of simulation (not the last one). It would be a nice feature of the new visual ibis building tools to allow visual editing of the waveforms as well as an automated "redundant" point removal based on some linearization tolerance. See http://www.eia.org/EIG/IBIS/ibis.htm and hit tools for more info. Chris Rokusek Viewlogic Systems From owner-ibis Fri Apr 3 10:08:10 1998 Received: from a.mx.crl.com (amx.crl.com [165.113.1.45]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA28162 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from pnc.com.pnc.com (mail.pnc.com [207.211.156.194]) by a.mx.crl.com (8.8.7/) via SMTP id KAA18825 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:05:11 -0800 (PST) env-from (mustafa@pnc.com) Received: from localhost by pnc.com.pnc.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA03748; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:06:19 -0700 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:06:19 -0700 (MST) From: Mustafa Celik To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: subscribe Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mustafa Celik Pacific Numerix From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 06:38:21 1998 Received: from gatekeep.ti.com (gatekeep.ti.com [192.94.94.61]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA26691 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:38:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from totoro.tdc.tijp.ti.com ([134.183.198.39]) by gatekeep.ti.com (8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA06985; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:34:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com (mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com [134.183.199.26]) by totoro.tdc.tijp.ti.com (8.7.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA23472; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:34:40 +0900 (JST) Received: (from tkgm@localhost) by mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com (8.7.1/3.3W6) id WAA20640; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:34:39 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:34:39 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199804061334.WAA20640@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> From: Akihiro Takegama To: crokusek@qdt.com Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: About WARNING of ibischk2 Chris, I'm sorry. I would like to cofirm my opinion, and I have one question. [1] Is slope of V(R) of based on V(R) of , isn't it ? [Pulldown] + [GNDclamp] --- Vcc --- (I) or [POWERclamp] ^ ^ | * | | | 0.6A x **** | | | | x ** |-+ | I | V (Pch) | x * +--o|| | | | * | |-+ +------+ | | * ^ x L | | | V | * | x slope = -50 Ohm --+ +------+ | ---- | * | x | | | V ^ *--------|-----------x--------- | |-+ < | 0.0V | 3.3 (V) +---|| < 50 | V (R) (V_fixture) |-+ < Ohm | |<------>|<--------->| | | V V(Pch) V (R) --- --- --- /// /// /// [2] Could you tell me the reason why it is 2% ? Is this must value ? ( You decided the value on Oct. in 1996. ) If we decided the diode value, the value is lower the IV curve (leak). We have the IBIS check problem yet. The last warning disappeared by your cooperation. The max voltage value can't be up 2.81V. ( Below is in 3% margin ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WARNING - Model 'inout': MAX AC Falling Endpoints (-0.00V, 2.73V) not within 0.055V (2%) of ( 0.00V, 2.81V) on VI curves for 50 Ohms to 0V ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Regards, A.Takegama ( tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com ) ************************************ * Name : Akihiro Takegama * * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * * Corp. : Texas Instruments * ************************************ - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:21:51 -0800 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Akihiro Takegama Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: [Re: About WARNING of ibischk2] References: <199804010915.SAA15589@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Akihiro, The "LOW" curve used in the DC vs. AC test is the sum of BOTH shunt curves (POWER_Clamp/GND_Clamp) + the Pulldown Curve. Similarly the "HIGH" curve used in the test is the sum of BOTH shunt curves + Pullup Curve. Chris Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > Chris, > thank you very much for your quick response and answer. > > I would like to confirm my issue. > > # Is it crosspoint 50 Ohm slope against the value of [Pulldown] > + [Gndclamp] ? > > > (I) > | * [Pulldown] + [GNDclamp] > 0.6A x **** > | x ** > | x * > | * > | * ^ x > | * | x slope = 50 Ohm > | * | x > *--------|-----------x--------- > 0.0V | 3.0 V (V) > (0.95V) > ##### > > - Regards, > A.Takegma > > ************************************ > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > ************************************ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Sender: crokusek@qdt.com > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:01:46 -0800 > From: Chris Rokusek > Organization: Quad Design Technology > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: Akihiro Takegama > Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 > References: <199803311308.WAA12838@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Akihiro, > > The ibishk2 program is checking the first and last point of your Rising > and Falling AC Waveforms against the DC VI curves and given test load > (50 Ohms). > > For your case the message indicates that the first point given in the > Rising Waveform table is .74V. > > If you were to plot the intersection of a 50 Ohm to 3V load line (slope > = 50 V/I) and the given DC VI curve you would see that they interesect > at .95V (this is fist value in [3] below). > > So since > > abs(.95 - .74) > 2% * (3 - .74) > .21 > .045 > > The checker will print a warning. > > The reason for the check is that the first and last points of the AC > waveforms are supposed to be the stable DC value when driving the given > load. > > Chris Rokusek > Viewlogic > > Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > > > To: IBIS-users, > > > > Hello, I'm making the IBIS model. But I am confused at ibischk. > > Could you support me ? > > > > I have one question. > > > > 1 ) I made the IBIS model within "Rising Waveform" and "Falling > > Waveform" and I ran the ibischk2. But many warning appeares > > it's IBIS model, which like as below. > > Could you please tell me how to calculate the value [3]. ? > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WARNING - Model 'inout': MIN AC Rising Endpoints ( 0.74V, 3.00V) not within > > ------------- > > [1] > > > > 0.045V (2%) of ( 0.95V, 3.00V) on VI curves for 50 Ohms to 3V > > ----------- ---------------- > > [2] [3] > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - Regards, > > A.Takegama > > > > ************************************ > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > ************************************ > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 08:50:44 1998 Received: from listbox2.cern.ch (listbox2.cern.ch [137.138.24.200]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA28788 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cern.ch (pccnce02.cern.ch [137.138.33.35]) by listbox2.cern.ch (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14744; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:43:08 +0200 (MET DST) X-Authentication-Warning: listbox2.cern.ch: Host pccnce02.cern.ch [137.138.33.35] claimed to be cern.ch Message-ID: <3528F8FC.96108207@cern.ch> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:47:08 +0200 From: Olivier CLERE Organization: CERN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS models generation from Spectre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I would like to generate IBIS models from the Spectre software. Is this really possible through s2ibis2? Anyone who is familiar with s2ibis2 please give me some advice. Thank you, Best regards, Olivier Clere. From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 10:30:24 1998 Received: from gatekeeper2.nsc.com (natsemi3-bh.nsc.com [205.227.60.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA00417 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper2.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id KAA08802; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:27:26 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi3-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma008668; Mon, 6 Apr 98 10:27:17 -0700 Received: from rockie.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA13457 for crokusek@qdt.com; Mon, 6 Apr 98 10:27:13 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA10835; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:29:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:29:29 -0700 From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <199804061729.KAA10835@rockie> To: crokusek@qdt.com, tkgm@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Hi, I have been following this discussion regarding the parser WARNING messages for V/T tables and have one comment. >From a bench measured IBIS model, the DC V/I data is taken on a testjig that is always different from the AC testjig. Also, as expected, the DC and AC measurements are taken on different equipments(DC on Curve Tracer, AC on Scope). Knowing all these, the 2% WARNING on the parser does not make much sense for V/T tables generated from measurements. Which means you may be violating this 2% rule all the time. This check of the parser is ok for a SPICE translated model as the same model was used for the V/I and V/T data. What I would like to know is since this is a WARNING and not an ERROR, how concerned does the model developer need to be ?? Regards, Syed National Semiconductor Corp. From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 11:05:48 1998 Received: from relay5.UU.NET (relay5.UU.NET [192.48.96.15]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA00959 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp1.uu.net by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: uucp1.uu.net [192.48.96.81]) id QQejyu21514; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qdt.UUCP by uucp1.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:02:42 -0400 Received: from hal.UUCP by qdt.viewlogic.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23940; Mon, 6 Apr 98 11:03:04 PDT Received: from f14 by qdt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05190; Mon, 6 Apr 98 11:01:14 PDT Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Message-Id: <3529174C.167EB0E7@qdt.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:56:28 -0700 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Akihiro Takegama Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 References: <199804061334.WAA20640@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Akihiro, I'm not sure I understand your question exactly. The slope of the load line designated by "x"'s in your diagram is just the load resistance 50 Ohms (= 50 Volts/Amp). Its actually -50 due to the current polarity. The load-line represents the load resistor while the V/I curve designated by "*" in your diagram represents the DC characteristics of the totem pole output stage while driving low (top transistor off) shown in Fig 2. Hope this answers your question. Chris Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > Chris, > I'm sorry. I would like to cofirm my opinion, and I have one question. > > [1] Is slope of V(R) of based on V(R) of , isn't it ? > > > [Pulldown] + [GNDclamp] --- Vcc --- > (I) or [POWERclamp] ^ ^ > | * | | | > 0.6A x **** | | | > | x ** |-+ | I | V (Pch) > | x * +--o|| | | > | * | |-+ +------+ | > | * ^ x L | | | V > | * | x slope = -50 Ohm --+ +------+ | ---- > | * | x | | | V ^ > *--------|-----------x--------- | |-+ < | > 0.0V | 3.3 (V) +---|| < 50 | V (R) > (V_fixture) |-+ < Ohm | > |<------>|<--------->| | | V > V(Pch) V (R) --- --- --- > /// /// /// > > [2] Could you tell me the reason why it is 2% ? > Is this must value ? > ( You decided the value on Oct. in 1996. ) > If we decided the diode value, the value is lower the IV curve (leak). > > We have the IBIS check problem yet. The last warning disappeared by your > cooperation. > The max voltage value can't be up 2.81V. ( Below is in 3% margin ) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WARNING - Model 'inout': MAX AC Falling Endpoints (-0.00V, 2.73V) not within > 0.055V (2%) of ( 0.00V, 2.81V) on VI curves for 50 Ohms to 0V > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - Regards, > A.Takegama ( tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com ) > > ************************************ > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > ************************************ > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Sender: crokusek@qdt.com > Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:21:51 -0800 > From: Chris Rokusek > Organization: Quad Design Technology > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: Akihiro Takegama > Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Re: [Re: About WARNING of ibischk2] > References: <199804010915.SAA15589@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Akihiro, > > The "LOW" curve used in the DC vs. AC test is the sum of BOTH shunt > curves (POWER_Clamp/GND_Clamp) + the Pulldown Curve. > > Similarly the "HIGH" curve used in the test is the sum of BOTH shunt > curves + Pullup Curve. > > Chris > > Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > > > Chris, > > thank you very much for your quick response and answer. > > > > I would like to confirm my issue. > > > > # Is it crosspoint 50 Ohm slope against the value of [Pulldown] > > + [Gndclamp] ? > > > > > > (I) > > | * [Pulldown] + [GNDclamp] > > 0.6A x **** > > | x ** > > | x * > > | * > > | * ^ x > > | * | x slope = 50 Ohm > > | * | x > > *--------|-----------x--------- > > 0.0V | 3.0 V (V) > > (0.95V) > > ##### > > > > - Regards, > > A.Takegma > > > ************************************ > > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > > ************************************ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > > Sender: crokusek@qdt.com > > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:01:46 -0800 > > From: Chris Rokusek > > Organization: Quad Design Technology > > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > To: Akihiro Takegama > > Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org > > Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 > > References: <199803311308.WAA12838@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Akihiro, > > > > The ibishk2 program is checking the first and last point of your Rising > > and Falling AC Waveforms against the DC VI curves and given test load > > (50 Ohms). > > > > For your case the message indicates that the first point given in the > > Rising Waveform table is .74V. > > > > If you were to plot the intersection of a 50 Ohm to 3V load line (slope > > = 50 V/I) and the given DC VI curve you would see that they interesect > > at .95V (this is fist value in [3] below). > > > > So since > > > > abs(.95 - .74) > 2% * (3 - .74) > > .21 > .045 > > > > The checker will print a warning. > > > > The reason for the check is that the first and last points of the AC > > waveforms are supposed to be the stable DC value when driving the given > > load. > > > > Chris Rokusek > > Viewlogic > > > > Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > > > > > To: IBIS-users, > > > > > > Hello, I'm making the IBIS model. But I am confused at ibischk. > > > Could you support me ? > > > > > > I have one question. > > > > > > 1 ) I made the IBIS model within "Rising Waveform" and "Falling > > > Waveform" and I ran the ibischk2. But many warning appeares > > > it's IBIS model, which like as below. > > > Could you please tell me how to calculate the value [3]. ? > > > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > WARNING - Model 'inout': MIN AC Rising Endpoints ( 0.74V, 3.00V) not within > > > ------------- > > > [1] > > > > > > 0.045V (2%) of ( 0.95V, 3.00V) on VI curves for 50 Ohms to 3V > > > ----------- ---------------- > > > [2] [3] > > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > - Regards, > > > A.Takegama > > > > > > ************************************ > > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > > ************************************ > > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 11:32:00 1998 Received: from gatekeeper2.nsc.com (natsemi3-bh.nsc.com [205.227.60.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA01423 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper2.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id LAA28507; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:29:00 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi3-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma028257; Mon, 6 Apr 98 11:28:43 -0700 Received: from rockie.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA18455 for ibis-users@eda.org; Mon, 6 Apr 98 11:28:34 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA11072; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:30:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:30:50 -0700 From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <199804061830.LAA11072@rockie> To: ibis-users@eda.org, Olivier.Clere@cern.ch Subject: Re: IBIS models generation from Spectre - Yes. Hi, Yes, s2ibis2 supports Spectre. I am quoting from the s2ibis2 documentation. In the .s2i header file, use 'Spectre' for [Spice type] ..from s2ibis2 documentation: ----------------------------- [Spice type] spicetype spicetype = HSpice, PSpice, Spice2, Spice3, or Spectre Required. Describes which flavor of Spice to use when simulating the circuits. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Regards, Syed. National Semiconductor Corp. > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Mon Apr 6 09:57:33 1998 > X-Authentication-Warning: listbox2.cern.ch: Host pccnce02.cern.ch [137.138.33.35] claimed to be cern.ch > Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:47:08 +0200 > From: Olivier CLERE > Organization: CERN > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: IBIS models generation from Spectre > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi, > > I would like to generate IBIS models from the Spectre software. > Is this really possible through s2ibis2? > Anyone who is familiar with s2ibis2 please give me some advice. > > Thank you, > > Best regards, > > Olivier Clere. > From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 11:35:21 1998 Received: from relay3.UU.NET (relay3.UU.NET [192.48.96.8]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA01443 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp2.uu.net by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: uucp2.uu.net [192.48.96.82]) id QQejyw01099; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qdt.UUCP by uucp2.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:32:07 -0400 Received: from hal.UUCP by qdt.viewlogic.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24175; Mon, 6 Apr 98 11:33:05 PDT Received: from f14 by qdt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05778; Mon, 6 Apr 98 11:30:23 PDT Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Message-Id: <35291E21.41C67EA6@qdt.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:25:37 -0700 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Syed Huq Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 References: <199804061729.KAA10835@rockie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Perhaps the ability to set the % used in the check should be allowed. I recall that we discussed this before... Or, perhaps the 2% should be increased to 5%. What percentage would allow these measured models to pass with some headroom? Chris From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 11:45:51 1998 Received: from mail.hyperlynx.com (root@mail.hyperlynx.com [209.20.148.70]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA01597 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tensor (tensor [209.20.148.75]) by mail.hyperlynx.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA22057; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:42:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980406114217.009bf260@mail.nwlink.com> X-Sender: mbflora@mail.nwlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:42:17 +0000 To: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq), crokusek@qdt.com From: Matthew Flora Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org In-Reply-To: <199804061729.KAA10835@rockie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Syed, >>From a bench measured IBIS model, the DC V/I data is taken on >a testjig that is always different from the AC testjig. Also, >as expected, the DC and AC measurements are taken on different >equipments(DC on Curve Tracer, AC on Scope). > >Knowing all these, the 2% WARNING on the parser does not make >much sense for V/T tables generated from measurements. Which >means you may be violating this 2% rule all the time. > >What I would like to know is since this is a WARNING and not an >ERROR, how concerned does the model developer need to be ?? Would changing the warning message around so that it gave the percentage difference help? (Currently, it just says that the difference is more than 2%.) Then the user could easily decide if the amount of mismatch is acceptable. In this way, someone that expects or is comfortable with a 5% (or more) difference could ignore the warning. (The program could still use 2% as the trigger for the warning.) We could even expand the message beyond 2 lines of text to include a description of how these numbers are generated. I admit that many of IBISCHK's messages are a bit too terse. Regards, Matthew Flora Senior Engineer HyperLynx (425) 869-2320 PH (425) 881-1008 FAX mbflora@hyperlynx.com From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 11:51:28 1998 Received: from relay7.UU.NET (relay7.UU.NET [192.48.96.17]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA01716 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp3.uu.net by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: uucp3.uu.net [192.48.96.83]) id QQejyx09642; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qdt.UUCP by uucp3.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:48:18 -0400 Received: from hal.UUCP by qdt.viewlogic.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24326; Mon, 6 Apr 98 11:48:15 PDT Received: from f14 by qdt.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05986; Mon, 6 Apr 98 11:43:33 PDT Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Message-Id: <35292137.167EB0E7@qdt.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:38:47 -0700 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Syed Huq Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 References: <199804061729.KAA10835@rockie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Syed, Syed Huq wrote: > What I would like to know is since this is a WARNING and not an > ERROR, how concerned does the model developer need to be ?? When the warning is issued the model developer should determine the cause of the warning as you have done (i.e. small discrepency due to measurement technique) and then move on. This is just a warning. EDA tools: Viewlogic/Quad tools will use the VI curves as the basis for simulation with the V/T waveforms as additional information so it turns out that a small errors like 5% on waveform endpoints will **potentially** only change simulation results on the order of uVolts (or not at all!) (DC stable states remain same regardless of V/T waveforms). I think most EDA tools will operate in a similar manner. The point of the warning is to let model developer know that something major may be wrong like: They used a TYP VI curve with a MAX VT waveform They forgot to include a high curve!! They forgot to include a low curve!! They used a different load resistor than specified. The AC waveform wasn't done stabilizing at end of simulation. ...etc... Any of the above would cause significant error so want to avoid. Chris Rokusek Viewlogic. From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 14:05:42 1998 Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA03678 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpbs2933.boi.hp.com (pgregory@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com [15.8.28.3]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id OAA11291 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pgregory@localhost) by hpbs2933.boi.hp.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id PAA01961 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:02:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Paul Gregory Message-Id: <199804062102.PAA01961@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com> Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 15:02:37 MDT Reply-to: paul_gregory@hp.com X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] >What I would like to know is since this is a WARNING and not an >ERROR, how concerned does the model developer need to be ?? >Regards, >Syed >National Semiconductor Corp. I think that the concern is more with the model consumer, not the developer. Any time I get a model that does not pass the ibischk utility, my confidence in the model goes down. I usually notify the model supplier that the model had some warnings and ask for clarification as to why it does not pass. Then I spend time examining the model in closer detail to try to understand the warnings/errors. While this is a good thing from the point of view that I become more knowledgeable about the model, it is not a desired thing. I need to have confidence that the models are accurate, and passing the ibischk utility is the first step. -- Paul Gregory phone: (208) 396-5086 USmail: Hewlett-Packard fax: (208) 396-4122 M/S 143 email: paul_gregory@hp.com 11311 Chinden Blvd. Boise, ID 83714 From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 14:39:25 1998 Received: from gatekeeper2.nsc.com (natsemi3-bh.nsc.com [205.227.60.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA04113 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper2.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id OAA26958; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:36:20 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi3-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma026891; Mon, 6 Apr 98 14:36:15 -0700 Received: from rockie.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA00674 for crokusek@qdt.com; Mon, 6 Apr 98 14:36:12 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA11674; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:38:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:38:27 -0700 From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <199804062138.OAA11674@rockie> To: huq@rockie.nsc.com, crokusek@qdt.com Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Chris/Matthew: Thanks for your comments. I would like to know the exact % delta between the V/I and V/T and not just 'not within 2%'. This will really tell me if I should be alarmed..Also, it would be nice to know if a certain greater than 'x'% deviation can cause problems with simulators. If a 5% difference causes uVolt variation on simulation, then this WARNING is never a serious thing and it can always be ignored. Regards, Syed. National Semiconductor Corp. > From peterbilt!qdt.com!crokusek@uunet.uu.net Mon Apr 6 11:34:43 1998 > Sender: crokusek@qdt.com > Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:25:37 -0700 > From: Chris Rokusek > Organization: Quad Design Technology > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) > To: Syed Huq > Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=us-ascii> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi, > > Perhaps the ability to set the % used in the check should be allowed. I > recall that we discussed this before... > > Or, perhaps the 2% should be increased to 5%. What percentage would > allow these measured models to pass with some headroom? > > Chris > From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 15:30:04 1998 Received: from gatekeeper2.nsc.com (natsemi3-bh.nsc.com [205.227.60.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA04836 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper2.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id PAA25626; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:27:04 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi3-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma025465; Mon, 6 Apr 98 15:26:55 -0700 Received: from rockie.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA04228 for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Mon, 6 Apr 98 15:26:53 -0700 Received: from kural by rockie (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA11839; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:29:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:29:09 -0700 From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <199804062229.PAA11839@rockie> To: ibis-users@vhdl.org, paul_gregory@hp.com Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 Paul, A model can pass the parser and still get WARNINGS. That does not mean that the model is **Bad**. We have devices whose V/I characterisitcs are non-monotonic. So, the parser will ALWAYS give you WARNINGS. I do agree that understanding the WARNINGS is a good thing to do. ..and if the model never passes the parser...throw it away. Regards, Syed National Semiconductor Corp. > From owner-ibis@server.vhdl.org Mon Apr 6 15:05:50 1998 > From: Paul Gregory > Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 > To: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 15:02:37 MDT > Reply-to: paul_gregory@hp.com > X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] > > >What I would like to know is since this is a WARNING and not an > >ERROR, how concerned does the model developer need to be ?? > > >Regards, > >Syed > >National Semiconductor Corp. > > I think that the concern is more with the model consumer, not > the developer. Any time I get a model that does not pass the > ibischk utility, my confidence in the model goes down. I > usually notify the model supplier that the model had some > warnings and ask for clarification as to why it does not > pass. Then I spend time examining the model in closer detail > to try to understand the warnings/errors. While this is a good > thing from the point of view that I become more knowledgeable about > the model, it is not a desired thing. I need to have confidence > that the models are accurate, and passing the ibischk utility > is the first step. > > -- Paul Gregory > > phone: (208) 396-5086 USmail: Hewlett-Packard > fax: (208) 396-4122 M/S 143 > email: paul_gregory@hp.com 11311 Chinden Blvd. > Boise, ID 83714 > From owner-ibis Mon Apr 6 16:36:05 1998 Received: from atlrel2.hp.com (atlrel2.hp.com [156.153.255.202]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA05866 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpbs2933.boi.hp.com (pgregory@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com [15.8.28.3]) by atlrel2.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id TAA14237; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from pgregory@localhost) by hpbs2933.boi.hp.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id RAA02594; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:32:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Paul Gregory Message-Id: <199804062332.RAA02594@hpbs2933.boi.hp.com> Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 To: huq@rockie.nsc.com Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:32:57 MDT Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org In-Reply-To: ; from "huq@rockie.nsc.com" at Apr 6, 98 4:27 pm Reply-to: paul_gregory@hp.com X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] >A model can pass the parser and still get WARNINGS. That does >not mean that the model is **Bad**. We have devices whose V/I >characterisitcs are non-monotonic. So, the parser will ALWAYS >give you WARNINGS. I do agree that understanding the WARNINGS >is a good thing to do. > >..and if the model never passes the parser...throw it away. > >Regards, >Syed >National Semiconductor Corp. I never suggested that a model that has warnings/errors is bad. Only that such models require more study to understand the reasons for the warnings/errors. And this is, in my opinion, "not a desired thing". It is at worst, an issue of model accuracy and at best, an issue of model confidence. -- Paul Gregory phone: (208) 396-5086 USmail: Hewlett-Packard fax: (208) 396-4122 M/S 143 email: paul_gregory@hp.com 11311 Chinden Blvd. Boise, ID 83714 From owner-ibis Wed Apr 8 11:10:25 1998 Received: from wile.nesa.com ([204.240.29.30]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA15724 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by wile.nesa.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA12433; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:25:43 -0400 Received: from porky.nesa.com(204.240.29.45) by wile.nesa.com via smap (V1.3) id sma012431; Wed Apr 8 13:25:21 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980408132527.00784df0@mail.nesa.com> X-Sender: breda@mail.nesa.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:25:27 -0400 To: si-list@silab.Eng.Sun.COM, ibis-users@eda.org From: Kathy Breda Subject: IBIS User Group minutes 3/19 - In future will only be sent to IBIS-user@eda.com. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ***Minutes of the IBIS Users Group Meeting held at DEC/Compaq on Thursday, March 19, 1998*** Thank you to Jeff Chu of DEC who coordinate the meeting room and refreshments. Also, thanks to Bob Haller of DEC who chaired the meeting in Ed Sayre's absence - a job well done! Next Meeting is Scheduled for Thursday, April 23, 1998 at 3:00PM. The meeting will be hosted by Joe Socha of TRILOGIC, Inc. in Wilmington, MA. Directions and Agenda to Follow. Apologies for the late distribution of the minutes. ------------------------------------------ N.B.==>Distribution of IBIS Information<== ----------------------------------------- To cut down the repeat messages and also e-mail sent to uninterested parties, the IBIS business information will be sent only to the IBIS-users@eda.com distribution list after this point. If you still want to receive IBIS minutes, but do not want to subscribe to the ibis-users@eda.com list, please let me know (breda@nesa.com)and I will create a special distribution list. IBIS technical information, such as BIRDS may be sent to a wider distribution list, including the SI distribution list. To be added to the IBIS distribution list send mail to ibis-request@eda.org. See directions for this and other interesting IBIS related addresses below. ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. IBIS Accuracy Sub-Committee Progress ------------------------------------ A proposal has been written for the IBIS Accuracy Specification. Each member of the Accuracy sub-committee is assigned to one part of the specification. This was presented by Greg Edlund and details from his presentation can be found below. Please send ideas to Greg (Greg.Edlund@digital.com) about the specification. Scope: * Define which IBIS features and driver families to cover. * Define different levels of accuracy so the user can decide which is appropriate for his or her own application. Test Loads: * Define a minimum set of test loads appropriate for the IBIS features and driver families covered. Measurement Techniques: * Provide selection criteria for test equipment. * Describe how to account for the electrical characteristics of the test environment. Comparison Metrics: * Define a curve overlay metric for use when IC processing conditions are known. * Define an envelope metric for use when IC processing conditions are unknown. * Define a tabular format for reporting the results of the above comparisons. * Write a C program which implements the above metrics and creates a summary table. The IBIS model test board has been powered up and is in debug. A board respin will be taking place. Once the IBIS Users' Web Page is ready the Gerber files and schematics will be posted. Software Aspects of IBIS Sub-Committee Progress ----------------------------------------------- Paul Galloway is leading this sub-committee and portions of his presentation can be found below. Need for an IBIS development kit: * It sounds like the recently announced Hyperlynx “IBIS Development” Suite may cover this requirement. See 2/26/98 e-mail message from breda@nesa.com regarding how to get the Hyperlynx Developer Tool Kit. Need for enhanced s2ibis to correct issues with the existing s2ibis2: * Capture issues and problems with s2ibis2 and determine what specific features of IBIS 3.0 should be added, basically develop a specification for the new s2ibis * Proceed with soliciting funding by working with the IBIS Open Forum and solicit member organizations for development funds and researching available grants, etc. for development. * Locate and schedule software development contractor for code development of the new s2ibis utility Action Item - Pursue funding through member organizations - Haruny Said Action Item - Research potential availability of grants - Paul Galloway Requirement for both a short (1 hour) "what is IBIS?" seminar: * Material probably exists for this from several past IBIS presentation we should leverage Requirement for in depth course teaching IBIS model development(and usage?): * Need to develop curriculum outline and materials Action Item - Contact Ed Sayre to move forward on development The European Summit * It was an interesting forum where the hot topic seemed to be EMI in IBIS simulation. * I believe copies of the presentations can be found by going to ftp://ftp.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/ Fabrizio Zanella is heading up the effort that focuses on the usability of connector models. The IBIS connector model discussion has taken place in the past and was shelved, but has become a pressing industry and user issue in the last one to two years. As a result, the sub-committee feels that IBIS should include a defined format for connectors in IBIS 3.1. Highlights from Fabrizio's presentation follow: Connector Models: * The plan is to create a BIRD for the connector model - Fabrizio was wondering if one existed already. * Interconnect multiline models are created using EM tools that output LRC matrices as SPICE sub circuits * Last year connector vendors were not fully supporting IBIS. They did not want to recreate multi line models * The solution is for the sub-committee to develop a standard format for connector and package multi line matrix model that can be used by all simulators (avoid convergence issues) * Plan is for the BIRD to be created this year * Fabrizio is looking for participation of connector vendors in this effort. Other Business -------------- User Web Page ------------- An outline has been created for the User Web Page by Kathy Breda and web site construction is being handled by Andrew Philips. A copy of the web page outline was presented and seemed to get good feedback. Comments are appreciated and should be sent to Kathy at breda@nesa.com. (first page:) Welcome to the IBIS User Forum Web Page... IBIS User Forum News - dates of next meetings... IBIS User Forum Overview IBIS User Meetings Sub-Committee Activities IBIS Tools Useful IBIS related Links On-line Chat (and beyond first page:) |----> IBIS User Forum Overview - IBIS User Forum Mission - IBIS User Forum Logistics (need better title) --Who is involved (distribution list - maybe) --meetings --sub-committees and contacts --current projects (link to IBIS User Meetings) - What is IBIS --Description of IBIS --Contacts (i.e. Link to IBIS Forum page) |----> IBIS User Meetings - News Item, announcing next meeting detail for user meeting and sub-committees - Minutes & Agendas -- User Forum --- by date, meeting minutes, agenda for upcoming meeting -- Subcommittees --- Subcommittee on accuracy ---- by date, meeting minutes, agendas --- Subcommittee on software aspects of IBIS ---- by date, meeting minutes, agendas - Presentations -- Presentations from meetings (link back to meetings) --- Abstract with PDF and ZIP availability? -- Other Interesting presentations --- Abstract with PDF and ZIP availability? |----> Sub-committee Activities - Sub-committee on accuracy -- Members -- link to minutes & Agendas -- BIRDS -- Test Board Design --Test board schematics --Test board simulation files -- Other stuff? -- Other? - Sub-committee on Software Aspects.... -- Members -- links to minutes & Agendas -- BIRDS -- Education Topics --? -- Other? From owner-ibis Wed Apr 8 18:21:25 1998 Received: from ns1.digital.com.sg (ns1.digital.com.sg [203.127.158.130]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA22165 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hgobh1.hgo.dec.com (hgobh1.hgo.dec.com [16.169.80.250]) by ns1.digital.com.sg (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0c) with SMTP id JAA31650 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:16:30 +0800 (SST) Received: by hgobh1.hgo.dec.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.35) id <01BD6398.76A7A900@hgobh1.hgo.dec.com>; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:18:31 +0800 Message-ID: From: John Lin - TAO To: "'IBIS_USER'" , "'SI_LIST'" Cc: Dc Liu , Hw Cheng , Jj Leu , Steve Ting Subject: How to do correlation with two extra Rising/Falling waveforms? Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:13:26 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi , In the IBIS Forum's I/O BUFFER MODELING COOKBOOK, page 12, there is a table - "Recommended Load Circuits and Waveforms for V/T Data Extraction." In the table, there are 4 waveforms to extract V/T data for [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] for a standard push/pull CMOS type buffer. I/O buffer+ R-fixture+V_fixture. For falling edge, two waveforms are obtained based on (1) V_fixture=0, and (2) V_fixture=VCC. For rising edge, two waveforms are gathered based on (3) V_fixture=0, and (4) V_fixture=VCC. The cookbook uses (2) and (3) to extract data in [Ramp] and says (1) and (4) are for correlation. How is the correlation done? What information can be extracted from (1) and (4)? Inside the Quad Design XTK manual, the (1) and (4) can be used to generate Ground Bounce Model. How? Any inputs from you are appreciated. Thanks, JOHNLIN CAE Engineer of EDA Department Digital Equipment Corp. Taiwan Branch Email: Linjohn@mail.dec.com TEL: 1-886-3-3900000 ext. 2152 From owner-ibis Thu Apr 9 06:12:30 1998 Received: from gatekeep.ti.com (gatekeep.ti.com [192.94.94.61]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA02974 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 06:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from totoro.tdc.tijp.ti.com ([134.183.198.39]) by gatekeep.ti.com (8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17063; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:08:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com (mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com [134.183.199.26]) by totoro.tdc.tijp.ti.com (8.7.1/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA16478; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:08:33 +0900 (JST) Received: (from tkgm@localhost) by mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com (8.7.1/3.3W6) id WAA10247; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:08:31 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:08:31 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199804091308.WAA10247@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> From: Akihiro Takegama To: crokusek@qdt.com, huq@rockie.nsc.com Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: [Re: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2] Chris, Syed, thank you very much for your cooperation. We checked our spice netlist. The bugs were found in that. The warnings are cleared at the new IBIS model. Thank you very much. - Regards, A.Takegama ( tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com ) ************************************ * Name : Akihiro Takegama * * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * * Corp. : Texas Instruments * ************************************ ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Sender: crokusek@qdt.com Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:56:28 -0700 From: Chris Rokusek Organization: Quad Design Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Akihiro Takegama Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 References: <199804061334.WAA20640@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Akihiro, I'm not sure I understand your question exactly. The slope of the load line designated by "x"'s in your diagram is just the load resistance 50 Ohms (= 50 Volts/Amp). Its actually -50 due to the current polarity. The load-line represents the load resistor while the V/I curve designated by "*" in your diagram represents the DC characteristics of the totem pole output stage while driving low (top transistor off) shown in Fig 2. Hope this answers your question. Chris Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > Chris, > I'm sorry. I would like to cofirm my opinion, and I have one question. > > [1] Is slope of V(R) of based on V(R) of , isn't it ? > > > [Pulldown] + [GNDclamp] --- Vcc --- > (I) or [POWERclamp] ^ ^ > | * | | | > 0.6A x **** | | | > | x ** |-+ | I | V (Pch) > | x * +--o|| | | > | * | |-+ +------+ | > | * ^ x L | | | V > | * | x slope = -50 Ohm --+ +------+ | ---- > | * | x | | | V ^ > *--------|-----------x--------- | |-+ < | > 0.0V | 3.3 (V) +---|| < 50 | V (R) > (V_fixture) |-+ < Ohm | > |<------>|<--------->| | | V > V(Pch) V (R) --- --- --- > /// /// /// > > [2] Could you tell me the reason why it is 2% ? > Is this must value ? > ( You decided the value on Oct. in 1996. ) > If we decided the diode value, the value is lower the IV curve (leak). > > We have the IBIS check problem yet. The last warning disappeared by your > cooperation. > The max voltage value can't be up 2.81V. ( Below is in 3% margin ) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WARNING - Model 'inout': MAX AC Falling Endpoints (-0.00V, 2.73V) not within > 0.055V (2%) of ( 0.00V, 2.81V) on VI curves for 50 Ohms to 0V > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - Regards, > A.Takegama ( tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com ) > > ************************************ > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > ************************************ > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > Sender: crokusek@qdt.com > Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 09:21:51 -0800 > From: Chris Rokusek > Organization: Quad Design Technology > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) > Mime-Version: 1.0 > To: Akihiro Takegama > Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org > Subject: Re: [Re: About WARNING of ibischk2] > References: <199804010915.SAA15589@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Akihiro, > > The "LOW" curve used in the DC vs. AC test is the sum of BOTH shunt > curves (POWER_Clamp/GND_Clamp) + the Pulldown Curve. > > Similarly the "HIGH" curve used in the test is the sum of BOTH shunt > curves + Pullup Curve. > > Chris > > Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > > > Chris, > > thank you very much for your quick response and answer. > > > > I would like to confirm my issue. > > > > # Is it crosspoint 50 Ohm slope against the value of [Pulldown] > > + [Gndclamp] ? > > > > > > (I) > > | * [Pulldown] + [GNDclamp] > > 0.6A x **** > > | x ** > > | x * > > | * > > | * ^ x > > | * | x slope = 50 Ohm > > | * | x > > *--------|-----------x--------- > > 0.0V | 3.0 V (V) > > (0.95V) > > ##### > > > > - Regards, > > A.Takegma > > > ************************************ > > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > > ************************************ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > > Sender: crokusek@qdt.com > > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:01:46 -0800 > > From: Chris Rokusek > > Organization: Quad Design Technology > > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m) > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > To: Akihiro Takegama > > Cc: ibis-users@vhdl.org > > Subject: Re: About WARNING of ibischk2 > > References: <199803311308.WAA12838@mario.tdc.tijp.ti.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > Akihiro, > > > > The ibishk2 program is checking the first and last point of your Rising > > and Falling AC Waveforms against the DC VI curves and given test load > > (50 Ohms). > > > > For your case the message indicates that the first point given in the > > Rising Waveform table is .74V. > > > > If you were to plot the intersection of a 50 Ohm to 3V load line (slope > > = 50 V/I) and the given DC VI curve you would see that they interesect > > at .95V (this is fist value in [3] below). > > > > So since > > > > abs(.95 - .74) > 2% * (3 - .74) > > .21 > .045 > > > > The checker will print a warning. > > > > The reason for the check is that the first and last points of the AC > > waveforms are supposed to be the stable DC value when driving the given > > load. > > > > Chris Rokusek > > Viewlogic > > > > Akihiro Takegama wrote: > > > > > > To: IBIS-users, > > > > > > Hello, I'm making the IBIS model. But I am confused at ibischk. > > > Could you support me ? > > > > > > I have one question. > > > > > > 1 ) I made the IBIS model within "Rising Waveform" and "Falling > > > Waveform" and I ran the ibischk2. But many warning appeares > > > it's IBIS model, which like as below. > > > Could you please tell me how to calculate the value [3]. ? > > > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > WARNING - Model 'inout': MIN AC Rising Endpoints ( 0.74V, 3.00V) not within > > > ------------- > > > [1] > > > > > > 0.045V (2%) of ( 0.95V, 3.00V) on VI curves for 50 Ohms to 3V > > > ----------- ---------------- > > > [2] [3] > > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > - Regards, > > > A.Takegama > > > > > > ************************************ > > > * Name : Akihiro Takegama * > > > * E-mail : tkgm@tdc.tijp.ti.com * > > > * Corp. : Texas Instruments * > > > ************************************ > > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- ------- End of forwarded message ------- From owner-ibis Fri Apr 10 07:21:02 1998 Received: from gwsmtp.thomson.fr (gwsmtp.thomson.fr [195.101.37.140]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA26596 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT) From: BENOIT.B.M.MEYNIEL@RCM.thomson.fr Received: by gwsmtp.thomson.fr (NPlex 1.3.146); 10 Apr 1998 16:15:30 +0100 X400-Received: by mta TFM-SMTP in /PRMD=THOMSON/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR; relayed; 10 Apr 1998 16:15:19 +0100 To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Question about differential devices X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=THOMSON/ADMD=ATLAS/C=FR;4218171610041998/A97171/BIGMAN] Message-Id: <4218171610041998/A97171/BIGMAN/11C454111000@MHS> Date: 10 Apr 1998 15:17:26 +0000 Importance: normal Autoforwarded: false Hey, I would like to know if the value of the differantial input impedance of the differential receivers is taking into account into the IBIS specifications. This value is typically very high but its influence can be important concerning the quiecent points of the numerical links. Anyone who is familiar with this please give me some coments . Thank you, Best regards, Benoit MEYNIEL From owner-ibis Fri Apr 10 13:46:13 1998 Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com ([132.233.247.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA03271 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pcocd2.intel.com (pcocd2.intel.com [132.233.108.99]) by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29588 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:43:04 GMT Received: from frx749 (frx749.fm.intel.com [132.233.123.15]) by pcocd2.intel.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA11368 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:43:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Applen - MD4 MICROPROCESSOR DESIGN Received: by frx749 (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/FMDT-RS6000) id AA21991; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:43:00 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:43:00 -0700 Message-Id: <980410134300.ZM10213@frx749.fm.intel.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (4.0.1 13Jan97) To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii unsubscribe -- ============================================================================ Steven Applen Tel: (916) 356-6243 Office: FM3/2/A7 = Intel Corporation, FM3-37 Pgr: (916) 328-5447 = 1900 Prairie City Road, Folsom, CA 95630 Fax: (916) 356-6030 = = 'There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn,' Camus = ============================================================================ From owner-ibis Fri Apr 10 14:28:56 1998 Received: from ganymede.or.intel.com (ganymede.or.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA03938 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (ichips-jf.jf.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ganymede.or.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA24389; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xtg801 (xtg801.pdx.intel.com [134.134.120.169]) by ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10484; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:25:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ichips.intel.com by xtg801 (8.8.8/WW2.1 (Jones Farm)) id OAA01654; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804102125.OAA01654@xtg801> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: John Lin - TAO cc: "'IBIS_USER'" , "'SI_LIST'" , Dc Liu , Hw Cheng , Jj Leu , Steve Ting Subject: Re: How to do correlation with two extra Rising/Falling waveforms? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Apr 1998 09:13:26 +0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:25:53 -0700 From: Stephen Peters Hello John: My comments are below: Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. > Hi , > > In the IBIS Forum's I/O BUFFER MODELING COOKBOOK, page 12, there is a > table - "Recommended Load Circuits and Waveforms for V/T Data > Extraction." > > In the table, there are 4 waveforms to extract V/T data for [Rising > Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] for a standard push/pull CMOS type > buffer. > > I/O buffer+ R-fixture+V_fixture. > > For falling edge, two waveforms are obtained based on > (1) V_fixture=0, and > (2) V_fixture=VCC. > > For rising edge, two waveforms are gathered based on > (3) V_fixture=0, and > (4) V_fixture=VCC. > > > The cookbook uses (2) and (3) to extract data in [Ramp] and says (1) > and (4) are for correlation. Yes, the 50 ohms to VCC and 50 ohms to gnd fixtures are used to extract the data for the [Ramp] table, but the other two conditions are used to provides further detail about the switching characteristics of the buffer, so the simulator can build a better model. I don't belive the cookbook says these waveforms are used only for corelation. > > How is the correlation done? > What information can be extracted from (1) and (4)? > > Inside the Quad Design XTK manual, the (1) and (4) can be used to > generate Ground > Bounce Model. How? > > Any inputs from you are appreciated. > > > Thanks, > > JOHNLIN > CAE Engineer of EDA Department > Digital Equipment Corp. Taiwan Branch > Email: Linjohn@mail.dec.com > TEL: 1-886-3-3900000 ext. 2152 > From owner-ibis Sun Apr 12 14:40:46 1998 Received: from paleale.cisco.com (paleale.cisco.com [171.69.95.88]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA19886 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rajeevk-ultra.cisco.com (rajeevk-ultra.cisco.com [171.69.195.101]) by paleale.cisco.com (8.8.4-Cisco.1/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA13697 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:37:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Rajeev Kumar Received: (rajeevk@localhost) by rajeevk-ultra.cisco.com (8.8.5-Cisco.2-SunOS.5.5.1.sun4/CISCO.WS.1.2) id OAA18102 for ibis-users@eda.org; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804122119.OAA18102@rajeevk-ultra.cisco.com> To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: unsubscribe X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII unsubscribe my hotmail account rajdang@hotmail.com Thanks Rajeev From owner-ibis Sun Apr 12 21:25:25 1998 Received: from wipinfo.soft.net (agni.wipinfo.soft.net [164.164.6.20]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA26403 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from voyager.wipinfo.soft.net by wipinfo.soft.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA25414; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:48:54 -0500 Received: from vega.wipinfo.soft.net ([192.168.151.228]) by voyager.wipinfo.soft.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA22154 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:52:30 +0530 Received: by vega.wipinfo.soft.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD66C3.288FA3C0@vega.wipinfo.soft.net>; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:01:42 +0530 Message-ID: <01BD66C3.288FA3C0@vega.wipinfo.soft.net> From: A Vasudevan To: "'ibis-users@eda.org'" Subject: unsubscribe Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:01:40 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe From owner-ibis Mon Apr 13 09:38:17 1998 Received: from relayhost.vlsi.com (relayhost.vlsi.com [134.27.20.23]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA08659 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by relayhost.vlsi.com (8.6.12/Hub-Perlotto/050895) id JAA03544 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:34:45 -0700 Received: from anubis.tempe.vlsi.com(134.27.128.1) by tweety via smap (V2.0) id xma003509; Mon, 13 Apr 98 09:34:16 -0700 Received: from mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com (mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.5]) by relayhost.tempe.vlsi.com (8.6.9/Hub-Perlotto/101195) with ESMTP id JAA04072 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:34:11 -0700 Received: from tempe.vlsi.com ([134.27.133.12]) by mailserver.tempe.vlsi.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA606 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:34:10 -0700 Sender: dc.sessions@tempe.vlsi.com (D.C. Sessions) Message-ID: <35323E82.8F5C45D9@tempe.vlsi.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:34:10 -0700 From: "D. C. Sessions" Reply-To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Organization: VLSI Technology Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Question about differential devices References: <4218171610041998/A97171/BIGMAN/11C454111000@MHS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BENOIT.B.M.MEYNIEL@RCM.thomson.fr wrote: > > Hey, > > I would like to know if the value of the differantial input impedance of the > differential receivers is taking into account into the IBIS specifications. > This value is typically very high but its influence can be important concerning > the quiecent points of the numerical links. > Anyone who is familiar with this please give me some coments . There is at present no explicit differential-impedance characterization. OTOH: 1) I'm not aware of many devices which actually have a path directly between the two inputs. What paths there are are typically reactive anyway. 2) The clamp curves are actually more general than a single scalar impedance for the inputs in isolation. 3) The v3 extensions make it possible to add explicit paths between pins, even to the extent of multiport networks. Not fun, but then again shouldn't be needed very often. -- D. C. Sessions dc.sessions@tempe.vlsi.com From owner-ibis Tue Apr 14 10:44:18 1998 Received: from webserver.intusoft.com (mail.intusoft.com [205.147.9.166]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA05116 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804141744.KAA05116@server.vhdl.org> Received: from charles.intusoft.com by webserver.intusoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1459.30) id 2FVNJYCT; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:39:02 -0700 From: "Charles Hymowitz" Organization: Intusoft To: jsynesio@us-power.com, fred@apsimtech.com, ibis-users@eda.org Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:36:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: FW: EIAJ home page Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199804141526.KAA24865@hawk.us-power.com> Thanks John. I looked at the EIAJ prED -5302 standards page on I/O Interface Model Project Group. The pdf file for the standard doesn't have all the fonts embedded so its kind of hard to download but attached is the letter I sent the webmaster. What do you (and others) think of my conclusion?? Dear prED -5302 Standards Webmaster We are about to post a free utility to convert IBIS models into SPICE models on our web site; a very important utility that is missing from most SPICE users software. So we are very interested in the SPICE side of things. We would, in future, like to support the I/O modeling standard. But one big problem, unless I am missing something with regard to the proposed syntax, is that you are using non-standard Berkeley SPICE syntax for the MOSFET element. I don't know who proposed this but it won't work with anyone's SPICE simulator (except the one who proposed the syntax I imagine) Therefore this will slow acceptance of this standard dramatically unless one of three things happen: 1) someone modifies the MOSFET code or B element behavioral model code in Berkeley SPICE 3 to accept the syntax (then every SPICE vendor could adapt the free Berkeley code into their simulator) or 2) someone creates an XSPICE model (public domain AHDL available from Georgia Tech Institute) using C code (again, then every SPICE vendor could adapt the XSPICE code into their simulator) 3) someone creates a utility to convert the prED-5302 model code into a SPICE 2G.6 or SPICE 3 style model. The problem with 3) is that you can't easily do table models in SPICE2G syntax which is the only compatible standard SPICE syntax, and SPICE 3 doesn't support a table model. Therefore unless 1) or 2) are accomplished it appears that this "standard" will not become one. Charles Hymowitz - V.P. Prod. Dev. Intusoft email: charles@intusoft.com, CompuServe: intusoft@compuserve.com Web: http://www.intusoft.com Tel. (310) 833-0710, Fax (310) 833-9658 P.O. Box 710, San Pedro CA. 90733-0710 Please visit our web site @ http://www.intusoft.com for more information and lots of SPICE goodies. From owner-ibis Tue Apr 14 13:05:58 1998 Received: from InterJet.apsimtech.com (apsimtech.com [209.21.21.35]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA07544 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by InterJet.apsimtech.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA06108; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "contec12" via SMTP by InterJet.apsimtech.com, id smtpd006106; Tue Apr 14 12:21:17 1998 Sender: fred@apsimtech.com Message-ID: <3533B767.A44@apsimtech.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:22:15 -0700 From: Fred Balistreri Organization: Apsim X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.3 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Hymowitz CC: jsynesio@us-power.com, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: FW: EIAJ home page References: <199804141744.KAA05116@server.vhdl.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles Hymowitz wrote: > > Thanks John. I looked at the EIAJ prED -5302 standards page on I/O > Interface Model Project Group. The pdf file for the standard doesn't > have all the fonts embedded so its kind of hard to download but > attached is the letter I sent the webmaster. What do you (and > others) think of my conclusion?? > > Dear prED -5302 Standards Webmaster > We are about to post a free utility to convert IBIS models into SPICE > models on our web site; a very important utility that is missing from > most SPICE users software. So we are very interested in the SPICE > side of things. We would, in future, like to support the I/O modeling > standard. > > But one big problem, unless I am missing something with regard to the > proposed syntax, is that you are using non-standard Berkeley SPICE > syntax for the MOSFET element. I don't know who proposed this but it > won't work with anyone's SPICE simulator (except the one who proposed > the syntax I imagine) > > Therefore this will slow acceptance of this standard dramatically > unless one of three things happen: > > 1) someone modifies the MOSFET code or B element behavioral model code > in Berkeley SPICE 3 to accept the syntax (then every SPICE vendor > could adapt the free Berkeley code into their simulator) or > > 2) someone creates an XSPICE model (public domain AHDL available from > Georgia Tech Institute) using C code (again, then every SPICE vendor > could adapt the XSPICE code into their simulator) > > 3) someone creates a utility to convert the prED-5302 model code into > a SPICE 2G.6 or SPICE 3 style model. > > The problem with 3) is that you can't easily do table models in > SPICE2G syntax which is the only compatible standard SPICE syntax, and > SPICE 3 doesn't support a table model. Therefore unless 1) or 2) are > accomplished it appears that this "standard" will not become one. > > > Charles Hymowitz - V.P. Prod. Dev. > Intusoft > email: charles@intusoft.com, CompuServe: intusoft@compuserve.com > Web: http://www.intusoft.com > Tel. (310) 833-0710, Fax (310) 833-9658 > P.O. Box 710, San Pedro CA. 90733-0710 > > Please visit our web site @ http://www.intusoft.com for more information > and lots of SPICE goodies. The syntax is a proposal that can unify and null out some of the objections IC vendors have in giving out Spice models. It is true that this is a new model and Spice vendors will have to impliment this in their particuliar brand of Spice. Once done the model is portable in any Spice that supports it. And there lies the advantage. There is no standard for Spice. Therefore Berekley models are supported as they evolve but not in the Berekley form. Hspice routinely modifies both the model parasitics and syntax for example. They then may "fix" some bugs and whala a non-standard model that only Hspice can support. There are certain advantages in everybody's Spice. And I'm sure EDA vendors want to keep it that way to distinguish and differentiate themselves. This proposal if adapted can become a standard for Spice vendors. It will take some work on the part of the Spice vendors just like it took work to support IBIS models in any Simulator. There are Spice vendors who do support IBIS by the way. Again each Spice simulator takes advantage of the features implimented in their Spice to accomplish this. Bob Ross posted an example IBIS Spice behavioral model that can be used in most generic Spice programs. Best Regards, From owner-ibis Tue Apr 21 13:05:23 1998 Received: from wile.nesa.com ([204.240.29.30]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA15009 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by wile.nesa.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA02125 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:01:34 -0400 Received: from porky.nesa.com(204.240.29.45) by wile.nesa.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002123; Tue Apr 21 16:01:14 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980421160121.00789190@mail.nesa.com> X-Sender: breda@mail.nesa.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:01:21 -0400 To: ibis-users@eda.org From: Kathy Breda (by way of Kathy Breda ) Subject: REMINDER - IBIS USER MEETING THURS. 4/23 @3:00PM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello! Reminder - IBIS User meeting - This Week! Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 Time: 3:00 PM - 5:00 PM Place: TRILOGIC (see directions below) Please feel free to forward this message. It has been sent only to the IBIS-users@eda.com distribution list to cut down on repeat messages. IBIS USER MEETING AGENDA ------------------------- Topic 1 Subcommittee on Accuracy - Greg Edlund A lot of activity has taken place and Greg will be presenting the details and looking for input Topic 2 Subcommittee on Software Aspects of IBIS - Paul Galloway Ed Sayre and Paul recently met to discuss curriculum development on IBIS education. Paul to provide report on those discussions. Topic 3 Quick update on IBIS connector model BIRD - Fabrizio Zanella Other Business - Kathy Breda, et al Quick web page update IBIS summit hosted by local companies to coincide with PCB-East Agenda and location for next meeting Any other business of interest to the group Directions to TRILOGIC: 301 Ballardvale St. Wilmington, MA 01887 Phone: 978-658-3800 Fax: 978-657-5927 From the North: Traveling South on Route 93, take exit # 41 “Route 125”. At the end of the ramp, turn left onto Route 125. At the first traffic light take a left onto Ballardvale Street. Travel ~1 mile on Ballardvale Street. When you see the ADC sign on your left, look for TRILOGIC's driveway - the second one on the right. It is a blind driveway on the curve of the road - 93 Corporate Place South, 301 Ballardvale Street. TRILOGIC is located in suite # 3 at the end of the building. From the South: Traveling North on Route 93, take exit #41 “Route 125”. At the end of the ramp, turn right onto route 125. At the first traffic light take a left onto Ballardvale Street. Travel ~1 mile on Ballardvale Street. When you see the ADC sign on your left, look for TRILOGIC's driveway - the second on the right. It is a blind driveway on the curve of the road - 93 Corporate Place South, 301 Ballardvale Street. TRILOGIC is located in suite # 3 at the end of the building. PLEASE NOTE: There are several visitor parking spots reserved for your use at the front doors to the building. Please ask the receptionist what room we will be meeting in. From owner-ibis Fri Apr 24 11:25:23 1998 Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com (calliope1.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA20698 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fmsmsx27.fm.intel.com (fmsmsx27.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.27]) by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA22591 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:22:12 GMT Message-Id: <199804241822.SAA22591@calliope1.fm.intel.com> Received: by FMSMSX27 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:22:11 -0700 From: "Domnitei, Michael" To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: subscribe to IBIS e-mail reflectors Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:05:00 -0700 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org I request to join both: the IBIS Open Forum Reflector(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) thanks, Michael Domnitei, Intel, MMO - Simulation group,(503)-696-4692. michael.domnitei@intel.com From owner-ibis Thu Apr 30 10:10:38 1998 Received: from emcmail.lss.emc.com (emcmail.lss.emc.com [168.159.48.78]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA08165 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lss1212.lss.emc.com (lss1212 [168.159.49.212]) by emcmail.lss.emc.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA08879 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from baker@localhost) by lss1212.lss.emc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05632 for ibis-users@eda.org; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:02:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:02:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerry Baker Message-Id: <199804301702.NAA05632@lss1212.lss.emc.com> To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: unsubscribe Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: hdeBTR4qbJ4p96fDbDRqhQ== unsubscribe From owner-ibis Thu Apr 30 14:17:35 1998 Received: from wile.nesa.com ([204.240.29.30]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA12437 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by wile.nesa.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24593; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:09:03 -0400 Received: from porky.nesa.com(204.240.29.45) by wile.nesa.com via smap (V1.3) id sma024583; Thu Apr 30 16:08:43 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980430160848.00774460@mail.nesa.com> X-Sender: breda@mail.nesa.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:08:48 -0400 To: ibis-users@eda.org From: Kathy Breda Subject: IBIS User Group Minutes - 4/23/98 meeting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_893981328==_" --=====================_893981328==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ***Minutes of the IBIS Users Group Meeting held at TRILOGIC on Thursday, April 23, 1998*** Thank you to Joe Socha for hosting the meeting at TRILOGIC and providing refreshments. Next Meeting is Scheduled for Thursday, May 21, 1998 at 3:00PM. The meeting will be hosted by Bruce Heilbrunn of Stratus in Marlboro, MA. We've met at Stratus once before. Directions to follow shortly. Greg Edlund and Paul Galloway presented updates from their respective sub-committees. Greg discussed the IBIS accuracy specification in terms of limiting its scope, test loads for the specification, the developer's tool kit and the test board. Paul's focus was primarily on providing IBIS training. Paul also announced that he is changing positions within Cadence and will no longer be heading up this Sub-Committee on IBIS Software Aspects. We're looking for a volunteer to step into Paul's spot. Anyone?? Attached to this message are the presentations made by Greg and Paul. If you can't read the presentations, and would like to send me your address or fax number I will get the presentations to you. Sub-Committee on Accuracy: ------------------------- * IBIS Accuracy Specification Scope -Proposed coverage of I/O buffer families is equivalent to IBIS 1.1. Limiting the scope allows the sub-committee to complete their task. * There is the hopeful belief that most simulation engines output will match for IBIS 1.1 data sheet information. * The IBIS accuracy specification test loads include: For both Push-Pull and Open Drain - Standard load, T-Line Termm to VDD, T-Line Term GND, Open T-Line and DRV to RCV * Request from Bruce Helbrunn to EDA vendors that free simulation engine be made available to IC vendors has received a positive response from Quad Design, Interconnectix/Mentor and Cadence * User Group discussions/comments - Could IC vendors create models that match the EDA vendors model development tools? There should be a common core that is an IBIS (1.1?) standard compliant model. Since IC and EDA vendors will probably be ahead of the IBIS standard, then comment section is needed to discuss enhancements. Within a level of accuracy, the EDA vendors IBIS models should all produce the same answer. * Test board update - at least six weeks away from power-up of rev 2 test board. Schematic rework is taking place right now. * Suggestion made that a round-robin type of testing activity take place once the board is done. Another suggestion is that a family of test boards be designed to address different design environments. * The next Accuracy sub-committee meeting is scheduled for Thursday, April 10th. Sub-Committee on Software Aspects of IBIS ----------------------------------------- * We're going to start having a IBIS topic presented at each meeting for education purposes. * Cadence has just made available new IBIS software utilities (http://www.cadence.com/software/pcb_info.htm) * Web page is moving along - Andrew has a first pass design in place and a lot of information has been added into it. A ways to go, but it is going... * We would like to coordinate IBIS training with PCB-East in October, and then perhaps repeat it at DesignCon99 in January. Paul presented a possible curriculum which is in one of the attached files( U:\ibis_ug_.ppt;). * The idea is that the training will be available for use - no charge. * There is discussion that there should be a one day course, two day course (with labs) and perhaps a shorter introductory course - like a lunch time seminar to get the word around. * Regarding connector models - Fabrizio Zanella is heading up the effort to resurrect BIRD 31.3 "Multiline Models". The BIRD is being modified, but it will not make IBIS 3.1 release. * So far the following Connector/tools vendors have signed up for this effort including: Eric Bogatin of Ansoft, Gus Panella of Molex, Kellee Crisafulli of Hyperlynx, John Ellis of Berg Proposed Agenda for meeting on Thursday, May 21, 1998 ----------------------------------------------------- * IBIS education topic - Review/Overview of IBIS versions * Update on Connector Modeling BIRD * Accuracy Specification and Test Board Update * More on IBIS education curriculum Other Business --------------- A lot of people seemed to miss the last meeting announcement and directions because I sent it only to the ibis-users@eda.org distribution. I'm now sending it to a wider distribution to make sure I reach those interested. Let me know if you want you name pulled off of my distribution list. 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