From bob@icx.com Thu Dec 7 09:39:57 1995 Return-Path: Received: from icx.com (icx.rain.com) by vhdl.vhdl.org (4.1/SMI-4.1/BARRNet) id AA29928; Thu, 7 Dec 95 09:39:57 PST Received: by icx.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.14) id ; Thu, 7 Dec 95 09:32 PST Received: by icx.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.14) id ; Thu, 7 Dec 95 09:34 PST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 09:34 PST From: bob@icx.com ( Bob Ross) To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: IBIS WEB SITES Cc: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com To IBIS USERS: Please let me know of web sites which are sources of real IBIS information and models. Here are the sites that I am aware of that may be helpful: H.A.S. Electronics, Inc. http://www.haselect.com Lists a sampling of IBIS models of devices from 8 vendors for sale HyperLynx, Inc. http://www.hyperlinx.com Provides a great winibis utility for DOS Windows for viewing, editing and checking IBIS files Interconnectix, Inc. http://www.icx.com Links to vhdl.org directories for specifications, utilities, models, documents and other information, and to the NCSU IBIS project National Semiconductor, Inc. http://www.natsemi.com Provides IBIS models from National Semiconductor North Carolina State University - Electronics Research Lab http://www2.ncsu.edu/eos/project/erl_html Gives S2IBIS utility information, other utilities, Cookbook, and other information Another site that may have information in the future: Free Model Foundation http://vhdl.org/vi/fmf Bob Ross IBIS Open Forum Secretary Interconnectix, Inc. From kellee@montana.nwlink.com Thu Dec 7 12:13:21 1995 Return-Path: Received: from montana.nwlink.com by vhdl.vhdl.org (4.1/SMI-4.1/BARRNet) id AA01037; Thu, 7 Dec 95 12:13:21 PST Received: (from kellee@localhost) by montana.nwlink.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA15277; Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:06:07 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:06:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199512072006.MAA15277@montana.nwlink.com> X-Sender: kellee@mail.nwlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ibis-users@vhdl.org From: Kellee Crisafulli Subject: IBIS WEB SITES, (Error in web address) Cc: si-list@silab.eng.sun.com An error appeared in the web site specified in Bob Ross's email 'IBIS WEB SITES' our correct web site address is: HyperLynx, Inc. http://www.hyperlynx.com Provides a great winibis utility for MS Windows 95, NT, 3.1 for viewing, editing and checking IBIS files. This is a available for everyone to use. It is shareware but there is no timeout or annoying messages if you don't register it. Have a great day...Kellee Crisafulli, HyperLynx Inc. From John.Fitzpatrick@ln.cit.alcatel.fr Wed Dec 13 07:51:06 1995 Return-Path: Received: from relay1gw.alcatel.fr by vhdl.vhdl.org (4.1/SMI-4.1/BARRNet) id AA29144; Wed, 13 Dec 95 07:51:06 PST Received: from las41247.ln.cit.alcatel.fr by relay1gw.alcatel.fr with SMTP (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA05400; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:42:54 +0200 Sender: fitzpat1@ln.cit.alcatel.fr Message-Id: <30CEF4DB.794BDF32@ln.cit.alcatel.fr> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:44:27 +0100 From: FITZPATRICK John Organization: Alcatel CIT, 22304 Lannion, France X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4c) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Interpretation of I/O data Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, (I'm rather new to IBIS, so if these topic has been covered, please point me in the right direction!) I've been reading up on IBIS, but certain aspects are not clear to me yet. I would be grateful if someone could help me on the following points: 1) Input characteristics: Is it correct to assume that if I fix the values of Power and Ground clamp references, the full input VI characteristic can be obtained by adding together the [Power clamp] and [GND clamp] tables, and that this will include the effects of internal pull-up and pull-down resistors, bus-hold circuits, FAST-type input current, etc ? 2) [Power clamp] when Vcc=0: Is it safe to use the [Power clamp] data, with Vcc=0, to deduce the presence/abscence of a real clamping diode? (Very useful information in designs with multiple power supplies!) 3) Hysterises Am I correct to conclude that in version 2.1, there is no way of knowing if an input has hysteresis? (If so, are there any plans to include this information. Perhaps with a "Vh" attribute to the [Model] keyword to indicate the minimum hysterises value?) 4) Input transition time Am I correct to conclude that in version 2.1, there is no way of finding out the maximum transition time allowed for a signal applied to an input? (If so, are there any plans to include this information. Perhaps with "Tinr","Tinf" attributes to the [Model] keyword?) Thanks in advance, John -- John Fitzpatrick Alcatel CIT, 4 rue de Broglie, 22304 Lannion, France Tel: (+33)96.04.79.33 Fax: (+33)96.04.85.09 From Arpad_Muranyi@ccm.fm.intel.com Thu Dec 14 08:54:42 1995 Return-Path: Received: from ormail.intel.com by vhdl.vhdl.org (4.1/SMI-4.1/BARRNet) id AA15851; Thu, 14 Dec 95 08:54:42 PST Received: from relay.jf.intel.com (relay.jf.intel.com [134.134.131.6]) by ormail.intel.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA10292; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:46:49 -0800 Received: from ccm.hf.intel.com by relay.jf.intel.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0tQGnw-000twcC; Thu, 14 Dec 95 08:46 PST Received: by ccm.hf.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #3) Thu, 14 Dec 95 08:46:48 PST Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 08:39:00 PST From: Arpad Muranyi Message-Id: To: John.Fitzpatrick@ln.cit.alcatel.fr, ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: Re: Interpretation of I/O data Text item: John, I will attempt to answer some of your questions. 1) You can add the Power and GND I-V curves together to get the "full" picture. However, you must be aware of the fact that the Power clamp curve is expressed in Vcc relative terms. (That is 0V in the table is where Vcc is, i.e. 5V). This will include pullup and/or pulldown resistors. However, bus-hold circuits might be expressed in the normal pullup or pulldown I-V curve tables, and might not be part of the clamp curves. (This depends on the vendor who makes the model, and I have not seen one yet with such circuits). As far as FAST-type input currents are concerned, there are some dynamic currents there which happen on a falling transition which we cannot directly model in IBIS yet. (Remember, I-V curves are static). 2) I don't understand your question. Are you referring to simulations with IBIS models, or measurements in the lab? For the second, I saw differences in the clamping characteristics depending on whether the device was powered up, so I would not measure anything without applying power to the device. In simulation it might be possible, but why do you want to do it without power? You can just power the device up and sweep it above the power supply voltage, and you will see right away whether it clamps or not. 3) Hysteresis (this is the correct spelling) is not necessary in IBIS, as I see it now. We are not concerned what is going on with the signal in the receiver, we just want to know what the effects of the receiver is to the outside world. Unless there are drastic changes in the input currents due to hysteresis, I don't think is needs to be modeled. However, if there is, we cannot model it today, since this is another one of those dynamic things. If it is important, we need to address this issue in the Open Forum meetings. 4) Again, I am not clear on this question. What transition are you referring to? Are you talking about a voltage change on the input node or the transition of the signal from point A to B in the input structure? (Part of this might have been answered already in the previous point). Sincerely, Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ================================================================================ Hello, (I'm rather new to IBIS, so if these topic has been covered, please point me in the right direction!) I've been reading up on IBIS, but certain aspects are not clear to me yet. I would be grateful if someone could help me on the following points: 1) Input characteristics: Is it correct to assume that if I fix the values of Power and Ground clamp references, the full input VI characteristic can be obtained by adding together the [Power clamp] and [GND clamp] tables, and that this will include the effects of internal pull-up and pull-down resistors, bus-hold circuits, FAST-type input current, etc ? 2) [Power clamp] when Vcc=0: Is it safe to use the [Power clamp] data, with Vcc=0, to deduce the presence/abscence of a real clamping diode? (Very useful information in designs with multiple power supplies!) 3) Hysterises Am I correct to conclude that in version 2.1, there is no way of knowing if an input has hysteresis? (If so, are there any plans to include this information. Perhaps with a "Vh" attribute to the [Model] keyword to indicate the minimum hysterises value?) 4) Input transition time Am I correct to conclude that in version 2.1, there is no way of finding out the maximum transition time allowed for a signal applied to an input? (If so, are there any plans to include this information. Perhaps with "Tinr","Tinf" attributes to the [Model] keyword?) Thanks in advance, John -- John Fitzpatrick Alcatel CIT, 4 rue de Broglie, 22304 Lannion, France Tel: (+33)96.04.79.33 Fax: (+33)96.04.85.09 Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Interpretation of I/O data To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4c) Organization: Alcatel CIT, 22304 Lannion, France From: FITZPATRICK John Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:44:27 +0100 Message-Id: <30CEF4DB.794BDF32@ln.cit.alcatel.fr> Sender: fitzpat1@ln.cit.alcatel.fr Received: from las41247.ln.cit.alcatel.fr by relay1gw.alcatel.fr with SMTP (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA05400; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:42:54 +0200 Received: from relay1gw.alcatel.fr by vhdl.vhdl.org (4.1/SMI-4.1/BARRNet) id AA29144; Wed, 13 Dec 95 07:51:06 PST Received: from vhdl.vhdl.org (vhdl.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by ormail.intel.com ( 8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA08884; Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:46:29 -0800 Received: from ormail.intel.com by relay.jf.intel.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0tPtO3-000twYC; Wed, 13 Dec 95 07:46 PST