From owner-ibis Wed May 3 17:20:15 2000 Received: from vlad.eng.mcd.mot.com ([144.191.26.101]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA25776 for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 17:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eng.mcd.mot.com (horizon.phx.mcd.mot.com [144.191.12.156]) by vlad.eng.mcd.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E54191C for ; Wed, 3 May 2000 17:17:55 -0700 (MST) Sender: gtruong@eng.mcd.mot.com Message-ID: <3910C150.82204D48@eng.mcd.mot.com> Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:16:16 -0700 From: gerald_truong X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: ibis2spice... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I was wondering if I could use the ibis2spice tool with hspice. Gerald Truong Motorola Computer Group 602-438-3525 From owner-ibis Thu May 4 11:25:43 2000 Received: from mailgw.chips.ibm.com (mailgw.chips.ibm.com [192.91.197.8]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA29428 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 11:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailrelay.btv.ibm.com (mailrelay.btv.ibm.com [9.66.15.39]) by mailgw.chips.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31598 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:23:27 -0400 Received: from tornado.btv.ibm.com (tornado.btv.ibm.com [9.66.108.55]) by mailrelay.btv.ibm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA79938; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:23:26 -0400 Received: from tornado.btv.ibm.com (jhayes@localhost) by tornado.btv.ibm.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA38722; Thu, 4 May 2000 14:23:25 -0400 Message-Id: <200005041823.OAA38722@tornado.btv.ibm.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: ibis-users@eda.org cc: jhayes@btv.ibm.com Subject: Merging modes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 14:23:24 -0400 From: Jerry Hayes I have an I/O where the output PFET is switching when used as a driver, however it acts as a fixed termination impedance when used as a receiver. I created two modes of operation where one mode models the I/O as an output and the characteristics of the PFET reside in the [Pullup] table and another mode that models the I/O as a input where I combined the characteristics of the PFET termination with the power clamp in the [Power_Clamp] table. This worked ... however the customer views this as unacceptable because they have to change model assignments between driver and receiver modes and is requesting that I merge these modes into one mode using the I/O model type. Is this possible? Thanks, Jerry From owner-ibis Thu May 4 12:11:57 2000 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA29608 for ; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs01-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.201]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.23 2000/05/04 11:45:41 dmccart Exp $) with SMTP id TAA25484; Thu, 4 May 2000 19:10:58 GMT Received: from fmsmsx17.intel.com ([132.233.48.17]) by 132.233.48.201 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Thu, 04 May 2000 19:10:10 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx17.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 4 May 2000 12:10:09 -0700 Message-ID: <4575832C8E71D111AC4100A0C96B512706458B11@fmsmsx36.fm.intel.com> From: "Muranyi, Arpad" To: "'Jerry Hayes'" , ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: Merging modes Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:10:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Yes. Use the dynamic clamp submodel without pulse table which makes it static, and specify non-driver mode. Then copy your I-V curve (pd or pu) into the submodel as a clamp curve. This will do what you need, and is legal in terms of the spec. Arpad ======================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Hayes [mailto:jhayes@btv.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 11:23 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Cc: jhayes@btv.ibm.com Subject: Merging modes I have an I/O where the output PFET is switching when used as a driver, however it acts as a fixed termination impedance when used as a receiver. I created two modes of operation where one mode models the I/O as an output and the characteristics of the PFET reside in the [Pullup] table and another mode that models the I/O as a input where I combined the characteristics of the PFET termination with the power clamp in the [Power_Clamp] table. This worked ... however the customer views this as unacceptable because they have to change model assignments between driver and receiver modes and is requesting that I merge these modes into one mode using the I/O model type. Is this possible? Thanks, Jerry From owner-ibis Wed May 10 04:01:54 2000 Received: from proxy.tellabs.fi (proxy.tellabs.fi [193.65.253.34]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id EAA25385 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 04:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from notesmail.tellabs.fi (notesmail.tellabs.fi [193.64.171.119]) by proxy.tellabs.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA15197 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 13:59:33 +0300 (EET DST) Received: by notesmail.tellabs.fi(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id C22568DB.003BFF6A ; Wed, 10 May 2000 13:55:20 +0300 X-Lotus-FromDomain: MARTIS From: "Olli Timonen" To: ibis-users@eda.org Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:02:56 +0300 Subject: How to correct the monotonicity problem of ibis model when importing model to ICX? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hello! I tried to import an ibis model to ICX. It reports following errors of non monononicity: Error: The sum of the typical clamp curves is not monotonic at voltage 1.6 Error: The sum of the minimum clamp curves is not monotonic at voltage 2.1 Error: The sum of the maximum clamp curves is not monotonic at voltage 2.6 !! the model in question is in the end of this message !! What is the best way to modify this model to make it compatible with ICX? Does simulation distort significantly if I just change all the I-values to zeros after voltage has turned positive? Second question: What is the good (best) way to define Vmeas value if it isn't included in the model and can't be found from the datasheets, etc. (maybe Vdd*0.5?)? ******************************************************** [Model] ptic Model_type Input Polarity Non-Inverting Enable Active-Low Vinl = 0.8000V Vinh = 2.000V C_comp 5.0pF 5.0pF 5.0pF [Temperature Range] 25.0000 85.000 -40.0000 [Voltage Range] 3.3000V 2.9700V 3.6300V [GND_clamp] | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) -3.30 -0.761 -0.682 -0.999 -3.20 -0.712 -0.641 -0.928 -3.10 -0.664 -0.601 -0.859 -3.00 -0.618 -0.563 -0.794 -2.90 -0.574 -0.526 -0.731 -2.80 -0.531 -0.49 -0.67 -2.70 -0.49 -0.455 -0.612 -2.60 -0.451 -0.421 -0.557 -2.50 -0.413 -0.388 -0.504 -2.40 -0.376 -0.357 -0.454 -2.30 -0.342 -0.327 -0.407 -2.20 -0.308 -0.298 -0.362 -2.10 -0.277 -0.27 -0.319 -2.00 -0.247 -0.244 -0.28 -1.90 -0.219 -0.219 -0.243 -1.80 -0.188 -0.191 -0.208 -1.70 -0.166 -0.171 -0.172 -1.60 -0.145 -0.151 -0.147 -1.50 -0.124 -0.131 -0.123 -1.40 -0.104 -0.112 -0.101 -1.30 -0.0847 -0.0933 -0.0784 -1.20 -0.0659 -0.0751 -0.0576 -1.10 -0.0483 -0.0579 -0.0387 -1.00 -0.032 -0.0416 -0.0221 -0.90 -0.018 -0.027 -0.0099 -0.80 -0.0079 -0.0147 -0.00469 -0.70 -0.00311 -0.00627 -0.00265 -0.60 -0.00144 -0.00228 -0.00121 -0.50 -0.000504 -0.000854 -0.000315 -0.40 -7.55e-05 -0.000237 -2.37e-05 -0.30 -2.96e-06 -2.93e-05 -3.18e-07 -0.20 -8e-08 -1.65e-06 -1.28e-08 -0.10 -6e-09 -7.53e-08 -1.75e-09 0.00 -4e-09 -7.75e-09 3.25e-09 0.10 -1e-09 -2.5e-09 9.25e-09 0.20 -2e-09 2.5e-10 1.43e-08 0.30 -2.5e-09 -2.5e-10 1.57e-08 0.40 -4e-09 -7.5e-10 1.98e-08 0.50 -2.5e-09 -1e-09 2.2e-08 0.60 -2e-09 5e-10 2.7e-08 0.70 -3e-09 1e-09 3.12e-08 0.80 -1e-09 -1.5e-09 3.5e-08 0.90 -3e-09 -5e-10 3.98e-08 1.00 -2e-09 -7.5e-10 4.22e-08 1.10 -2e-09 -3.5e-09 4.5e-08 1.20 0 -1.96e-07 4.93e-08 1.30 -5e-09 -5.23e-06 5.1e-08 1.40 -2.99e-07 -1.05e-05 5.15e-08 1.50 -1.64e-05 -1.35e-05 -3.01e-06 1.60 -2.03e-05 -1.4e-05 -1.49e-05 1.70 -2.12e-05 -1.39e-05 -2.99e-05 1.80 -2.15e-05 -1.32e-05 -3.21e-05 1.90 -2.1e-05 -2.32e-05 -3.26e-05 2.00 -2.02e-05 -3.13e-05 -3.24e-05 2.10 -2e-05 -0.000108 -3.18e-05 2.20 -2e-05 -0.000168 -3.05e-05 2.30 -2e-05 -0.000152 -5.53e-05 2.40 -2e-05 -5.97e-05 -7.74e-05 2.50 -2e-05 -1.16e-05 -0.000134 2.60 -2e-05 -1.37e-06 -0.000245 2.70 -2e-05 -1.32e-07 -0.000562 2.80 -1.84e-06 -1.1e-08 -0.00048 2.90 -1.17e-07 1.25e-09 -0.000223 3.00 -1e-08 1.25e-09 -6.41e-05 3.10 -5.5e-09 2.5e-09 -9.3e-06 3.20 -1e-09 5e-09 -5.43e-07 3.30 -2e-09 1.05e-08 8.95e-08 [POWER_clamp] | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) -3.30 0.388 0.281 0.525 -3.20 0.365 0.264 0.494 -3.10 0.343 0.248 0.464 -3.00 0.321 0.232 0.434 -2.90 0.3 0.216 0.406 -2.80 0.28 0.2 0.378 -2.70 0.26 0.186 0.352 -2.60 0.241 0.169 0.326 -2.50 0.222 0.156 0.301 -2.40 0.204 0.144 0.277 -2.30 0.187 0.131 0.254 -2.20 0.168 0.119 0.233 -2.10 0.154 0.107 0.212 -2.00 0.14 0.0948 0.192 -1.90 0.127 0.0828 0.169 -1.80 0.113 0.071 0.153 -1.70 0.101 0.0595 0.138 -1.60 0.0876 0.0484 0.122 -1.50 0.0748 0.0377 0.107 -1.40 0.0625 0.0279 0.0935 -1.30 0.0507 0.019 0.0796 -1.20 0.0396 0.0116 0.0665 -1.10 0.0295 0.00559 0.0543 -1.00 0.0205 0.00106 0.0428 -0.90 0.0127 0.000111 0.0321 -0.80 0.00535 8.34e-06 0.0219 -0.70 0.000761 7.24e-07 0.013 -0.60 4.39e-05 1.12e-07 0.00507 -0.50 1.37e-06 2.93e-08 0.000549 -0.40 4.5e-08 1.05e-08 2.08e-05 -0.30 0 5e-09 4.82e-07 -0.20 -1e-09 2.5e-09 1.48e-07 -0.10 -2.5e-09 1.25e-09 1.34e-07 0.00 -2e-09 1.25e-09 1.29e-07 From owner-ibis Wed May 10 10:12:17 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA27004 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 10:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id KAA23245; Wed, 10 May 2000 10:09:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id KAA02168; Wed, 10 May 2000 10:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <391997E4.E0B5141@mentor.com> Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:09:56 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Olli Timonen CC: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: How to correct the monotonicity problem of ibis model whenimporting model to ICX? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Olli: I will respond briefly to your questions. For non-monotonic data problem, it appears that your suggestion of just zeroing out the noisy data should eliminate the Error reports. This approach should not effect accuracy. There may be other options that could be discussed directly with the vendor. There probably is not a completely general answer for selecting a Vmeas when none can be found. It is needed if any timing delay data is specified. My first approach would be to select a value that is somewhere midway between the input threshold voltages for the input techology that the I/O buffer is designed to drive. Best Regards, Bob Ross Mentor Graphics Olli Timonen wrote: > > Hello! > > I tried to import an ibis model to ICX. It reports following errors of non > monononicity: > > Error: The sum of the typical clamp curves is not monotonic at voltage 1.6 > Error: The sum of the minimum clamp curves is not monotonic at voltage 2.1 > Error: The sum of the maximum clamp curves is not monotonic at voltage 2.6 > > !! the model in question is in the end of this message !! > > What is the best way to modify this model to make it compatible with ICX? Does > simulation distort significantly if I just change all the I-values to zeros > after voltage has turned positive? > > Second question: > > What is the good (best) way to define Vmeas value if it isn't included in the > model and can't be found from the datasheets, etc. (maybe Vdd*0.5?)? > > ******************************************************** > > [Model] ptic > Model_type Input > Polarity Non-Inverting > Enable Active-Low > Vinl = 0.8000V > Vinh = 2.000V > C_comp 5.0pF 5.0pF 5.0pF > > [Temperature Range] 25.0000 85.000 -40.0000 > [Voltage Range] 3.3000V 2.9700V 3.6300V > [GND_clamp] > | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) > > -3.30 -0.761 -0.682 -0.999 > -3.20 -0.712 -0.641 -0.928 > -3.10 -0.664 -0.601 -0.859 > -3.00 -0.618 -0.563 -0.794 > -2.90 -0.574 -0.526 -0.731 > -2.80 -0.531 -0.49 -0.67 > -2.70 -0.49 -0.455 -0.612 > -2.60 -0.451 -0.421 -0.557 > -2.50 -0.413 -0.388 -0.504 > -2.40 -0.376 -0.357 -0.454 > -2.30 -0.342 -0.327 -0.407 > -2.20 -0.308 -0.298 -0.362 > -2.10 -0.277 -0.27 -0.319 > -2.00 -0.247 -0.244 -0.28 > -1.90 -0.219 -0.219 -0.243 > -1.80 -0.188 -0.191 -0.208 > -1.70 -0.166 -0.171 -0.172 > -1.60 -0.145 -0.151 -0.147 > -1.50 -0.124 -0.131 -0.123 > -1.40 -0.104 -0.112 -0.101 > -1.30 -0.0847 -0.0933 -0.0784 > -1.20 -0.0659 -0.0751 -0.0576 > -1.10 -0.0483 -0.0579 -0.0387 > -1.00 -0.032 -0.0416 -0.0221 > -0.90 -0.018 -0.027 -0.0099 > -0.80 -0.0079 -0.0147 -0.00469 > -0.70 -0.00311 -0.00627 -0.00265 > -0.60 -0.00144 -0.00228 -0.00121 > -0.50 -0.000504 -0.000854 -0.000315 > -0.40 -7.55e-05 -0.000237 -2.37e-05 > -0.30 -2.96e-06 -2.93e-05 -3.18e-07 > -0.20 -8e-08 -1.65e-06 -1.28e-08 > -0.10 -6e-09 -7.53e-08 -1.75e-09 > 0.00 -4e-09 -7.75e-09 3.25e-09 > 0.10 -1e-09 -2.5e-09 9.25e-09 > 0.20 -2e-09 2.5e-10 1.43e-08 > 0.30 -2.5e-09 -2.5e-10 1.57e-08 > 0.40 -4e-09 -7.5e-10 1.98e-08 > 0.50 -2.5e-09 -1e-09 2.2e-08 > 0.60 -2e-09 5e-10 2.7e-08 > 0.70 -3e-09 1e-09 3.12e-08 > 0.80 -1e-09 -1.5e-09 3.5e-08 > 0.90 -3e-09 -5e-10 3.98e-08 > 1.00 -2e-09 -7.5e-10 4.22e-08 > 1.10 -2e-09 -3.5e-09 4.5e-08 > 1.20 0 -1.96e-07 4.93e-08 > 1.30 -5e-09 -5.23e-06 5.1e-08 > 1.40 -2.99e-07 -1.05e-05 5.15e-08 > 1.50 -1.64e-05 -1.35e-05 -3.01e-06 > 1.60 -2.03e-05 -1.4e-05 -1.49e-05 > 1.70 -2.12e-05 -1.39e-05 -2.99e-05 > 1.80 -2.15e-05 -1.32e-05 -3.21e-05 > 1.90 -2.1e-05 -2.32e-05 -3.26e-05 > 2.00 -2.02e-05 -3.13e-05 -3.24e-05 > 2.10 -2e-05 -0.000108 -3.18e-05 > 2.20 -2e-05 -0.000168 -3.05e-05 > 2.30 -2e-05 -0.000152 -5.53e-05 > 2.40 -2e-05 -5.97e-05 -7.74e-05 > 2.50 -2e-05 -1.16e-05 -0.000134 > 2.60 -2e-05 -1.37e-06 -0.000245 > 2.70 -2e-05 -1.32e-07 -0.000562 > 2.80 -1.84e-06 -1.1e-08 -0.00048 > 2.90 -1.17e-07 1.25e-09 -0.000223 > 3.00 -1e-08 1.25e-09 -6.41e-05 > 3.10 -5.5e-09 2.5e-09 -9.3e-06 > 3.20 -1e-09 5e-09 -5.43e-07 > 3.30 -2e-09 1.05e-08 8.95e-08 > > [POWER_clamp] > | voltage I(typ) I(min) I(max) > > -3.30 0.388 0.281 0.525 > -3.20 0.365 0.264 0.494 > -3.10 0.343 0.248 0.464 > -3.00 0.321 0.232 0.434 > -2.90 0.3 0.216 0.406 > -2.80 0.28 0.2 0.378 > -2.70 0.26 0.186 0.352 > -2.60 0.241 0.169 0.326 > -2.50 0.222 0.156 0.301 > -2.40 0.204 0.144 0.277 > -2.30 0.187 0.131 0.254 > -2.20 0.168 0.119 0.233 > -2.10 0.154 0.107 0.212 > -2.00 0.14 0.0948 0.192 > -1.90 0.127 0.0828 0.169 > -1.80 0.113 0.071 0.153 > -1.70 0.101 0.0595 0.138 > -1.60 0.0876 0.0484 0.122 > -1.50 0.0748 0.0377 0.107 > -1.40 0.0625 0.0279 0.0935 > -1.30 0.0507 0.019 0.0796 > -1.20 0.0396 0.0116 0.0665 > -1.10 0.0295 0.00559 0.0543 > -1.00 0.0205 0.00106 0.0428 > -0.90 0.0127 0.000111 0.0321 > -0.80 0.00535 8.34e-06 0.0219 > -0.70 0.000761 7.24e-07 0.013 > -0.60 4.39e-05 1.12e-07 0.00507 > -0.50 1.37e-06 2.93e-08 0.000549 > -0.40 4.5e-08 1.05e-08 2.08e-05 > -0.30 0 5e-09 4.82e-07 > -0.20 -1e-09 2.5e-09 1.48e-07 > -0.10 -2.5e-09 1.25e-09 1.34e-07 > 0.00 -2e-09 1.25e-09 1.29e-07 From owner-ibis Wed May 10 22:18:57 2000 Received: from oliver.al.dynip.com (root@209-63-189-52.sea.jps.net [209.63.189.52]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA29027 for ; Wed, 10 May 2000 22:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by oliver.al.dynip.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id JAA25994; Wed, 10 May 2000 09:39:00 -0700 From: Al Davis To: "Olli Timonen" , ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: How to correct the monotonicity problem of ibis model when importing model to ICX? Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:28:16 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.20] Content-Type: text/plain References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00051009385807.01155@oliver.al.dynip.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 10 May 2000, Olli Timonen wrote: > What is the best way to modify this model to make it compatible with ICX? Does > simulation distort significantly if I just change all the I-values to zeros > after voltage has turned positive? The non-monotonic stuff looks like measurement noise to me. You won't lose anything by just making it zero. The simulator probably does this anyway. Non-monotonic means there is a negative resistance region. This means the circuit is probably unstable, which means it is will oscillate in some conditions. The real circuit probably doesn't do this. You are probably improving the accuracy of the model if you flatten out the questionable areas. Just remove or comment out the offending lines. The real device inside that is being modeled by a clamp curve is usually a diode. Diodes don't do that. A proper clamp curve should be zero, or at least nearly zero, with current in the correct direction, in its reverse biased region. From owner-ibis Mon May 15 02:48:17 2000 Received: from gw-nl4.philips.com (gw-nl4.philips.com [192.68.44.36]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id CAA14498 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 02:48:15 -0700 (PDT) From: rene.voshol@philips.com Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl4.philips.com with ESMTP id LAA04972 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 11:46:24 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from rene.voshol@philips.com) Received: from smtprelay-eur1.philips.com(130.139.36.3) by gw-nl4.philips.com via mwrap (4.0a) id xma004970; Mon, 15 May 00 11:46:24 +0200 Received: from notessmtp-nl2.philips.com (notessmtp-nl2.philips.com [130.139.36.11]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with ESMTP id LAA22769 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 11:46:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from EHLMS01.DIAMOND.PHILIPS.COM (ehlms01sv1.diamond.philips.com [130.139.54.212]) by notessmtp-nl2.philips.com (8.9.3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with ESMTP id LAA15222 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 11:46:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by EHLMS01.DIAMOND.PHILIPS.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 4.0) with snapi via EMEA2 id 0056890010925394; Mon, 15 May 2000 11:46:18 +0200 To: Subject: Different reference voltages for 5v tolerant parts. Message-ID: <0056890010925394000002L942*@MHS> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:46:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name="MEMO 05/15/00 11:45:55" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by server.eda.org id CAA14499 Hello, I have the following problem: The IBIS spec mentions that in case of 5v tolerant parts (with Vcc=3.3V) the V/I curves should cover the overvoltage range; -5V to 10V rather then -3.3V to 6.6V. - [Pull-up Reference] statement in S2IBIS2 does not seem to have effect - Since Vcc has an offset of 0.3V and the overvoltage has an offset of 0.5V the result is three different voltage ranges for the Pull-Up curve and the POWER clamp curve (Vtable=Vcc-Vcurve). Hand editing and some extrapolation can fix all this but I was wondering how others deal with this problem. BTW after editing the correct voltage range in the .spi files and running s2ibis2 again the resulting table looks a mess; incomplete and lots of 0V values. Kind Regards, Rene Voshol From owner-ibis Mon May 15 04:46:52 2000 Received: from mailboy.huawei.com.cn ([202.96.135.134]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id EAA14865 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 04:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x17100 ([10.121.10.139]) by mailboy.huawei.com.cn (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA18811 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 19:36:57 +0800 Message-ID: <003901bfbe63$26fb33e0$8b0a790a@huawei.com.cn> From: "Baoshu XU" To: Subject: May any HyperLynx user help me? Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:46:05 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFBEA6.34E47820" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFBEA6.34E47820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgdGhlcmUsDQoNClRoZSBxdWVzdGlvbiBpcyBvcmlnaW5hdGVkIGZyb20gdGhlIEh5cGVyU3Vp dGUgRGVtbyhhIGh5cGVybHlueCBwcm9kdWN0KSByZXBvcnQuIFRoZSBUZXJtaW5hdGlvbiBXaXph cmQgaW4gdGhpcyBzaW11bGF0aW9uIHRvb2wgcmVwb3J0cyBhbHNvIGRyaXZlciBpbXBlZGFuY2Ug YW5kIHRyYW5zaXRpb24gdGltZS4gQWZ0ZXIgaHVuZHJlZHMgb2YgdGVzdCBJIGZpbmQgdGhlIHJl cG9ydGVkIHRyYW5zaXRpb24gdGltZSBpcyB0aHVzIGNhbGN1bGF0ZWQ6DQogDQogWj02KlgqWS8o WCtZKQ0KIA0KIHdoZXJlDQogDQogWiA9IHRyYW5zaXRpb24gdGltZSwNClggPSBkdF9yL2R2KCB0 eXBpY2FsICksDQpZID0gZHRfZi9kdiggdHlwaWNhbCApDQogDQogVGhhdCBpcyB0byBzYXksIHRy YW5zaXRpb24gdGltZSBpcyBub3QgcmVsYXRlZCB0byBzdXBwbHkgbGV2ZWwsIG5vdCB0byBvdXRw dXQgc3dpbmcsICBub3QgdG8gdGhlIGFic29sdXRlIHZhbHVlIG9mIGR2IG9yIGR0IGV2ZW4uICBX aGF0IGRvZXMgdGhpcyBtZWFuPw0KDQpCZXN0IFJlZ2FyZHMNCkJhb3NodSBYVQ0K ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFBEA6.34E47820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWdi MjMxMiIgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50LVR5cGU+DQo8TUVUQSBjb250ZW50PSJNU0hUTUwgNS4w MC4yNjE0LjM1MDAiIG5hbWU9R0VORVJBVE9SPg0KPFNUWUxFPjwvU1RZTEU+DQo8L0hFQUQ+DQo8 Qk9EWSBiZ0NvbG9yPSNmZmZmZmY+DQo8RElWPkhpIHRoZXJlLDwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8 L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+VGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzIG9yaWdpbmF0ZWQgZnJvbSB0aGUgSHlwZXJTdWl0 ZSBEZW1vKGEgaHlwZXJseW54IHByb2R1Y3QpIA0KcmVwb3J0LiBUaGUgVGVybWluYXRpb24gV2l6 YXJkIGluIHRoaXMgc2ltdWxhdGlvbiB0b29sIHJlcG9ydHMgYWxzbyBkcml2ZXIgDQppbXBlZGFu Y2UgYW5kIHRyYW5zaXRpb24gdGltZS4gQWZ0ZXIgaHVuZHJlZHMgb2YgdGVzdCBJIGZpbmQgdGhl IHJlcG9ydGVkIA0KdHJhbnNpdGlvbiB0aW1lIGlzIHRodXMgY2FsY3VsYXRlZDo8QlI+Jm5ic3A7 PEJSPiBaPTYqWCpZLyhYK1kpPEJSPiZuYnNwOzxCUj4gDQp3aGVyZTxCUj4mbmJzcDs8QlI+IFog PSB0cmFuc2l0aW9uIHRpbWUsPEJSPlggPSBkdF9yL2R2KCB0eXBpY2FsICksPEJSPlkgPSANCmR0 X2YvZHYoIHR5cGljYWwgKTxCUj4mbmJzcDs8QlI+IFRoYXQgaXMgdG8gc2F5LCB0cmFuc2l0aW9u IHRpbWUgaXMgbm90IHJlbGF0ZWQgDQp0byBzdXBwbHkgbGV2ZWwsIG5vdCB0byBvdXRwdXQgc3dp bmcsJm5ic3A7IG5vdCB0byB0aGUgYWJzb2x1dGUgdmFsdWUgb2YgZHYgb3IgDQpkdCBldmVuLiZu YnNwOyBXaGF0IGRvZXMgdGhpcyBtZWFuPzwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+ QmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzPEJSPjxGT05UIHNpemU9Mj5CYW9zaHUgWFU8L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+PC9CT0RZ PjwvSFRNTD4NCg== ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BFBEA6.34E47820-- From owner-ibis Mon May 15 11:10:32 2000 Received: from jasper.cisco.com (jasper.cisco.com [171.69.198.63]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA16870 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 11:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jasper.cisco.com (jasper.cisco.com [171.69.198.63]) by jasper.cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA25720; Mon, 15 May 2000 11:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200005151807.LAA25720@jasper.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:07:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Syed Huq Reply-To: Syed Huq Subject: Re: Different reference voltages for 5v tolerant parts. To: ibis-users@eda.org, rene.voshol@philips.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: hxTG29EvXgE/KXDcM8lMsQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.1 CDE Version 1.2.1 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Since the voltage sweep range is controlled by [voltage range], which is your Vdd, I would do the hand edit and extrapolation like you described. Make sure your [Iterate] is specified in your .s2i file so the .spi does not get over-written. If you still see issues, try running Hspice and bypass s2ibis2 on this hand edited .spi file. Syed Cisco Systems, Inc > > Hand editing and some extrapolation can fix all this but I was wondering how others deal with this problem. > BTW after editing the correct voltage range in the .spi files and running s2ibis2 again the resulting table > looks a mess; incomplete and lots of 0V values. > > Kind Regards, > > Rene Voshol From owner-ibis Mon May 15 13:30:41 2000 Received: from zardoz.icworks.com (zardoz.icworks.com [209.24.141.214]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA17341 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 13:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from testworks.ttdsj.cypress.com (testworks.ttdsj.cypress.com [157.95.121.4]) by zardoz.icworks.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31277 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 13:39:48 -0700 Received: by testworks.ttdsj.cypress.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <24ZLT65G>; Mon, 15 May 2000 13:35:36 -0700 Message-ID: From: Eric Chen To: "'ibis-users@eda.org'" Subject: unsubscribe Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:33:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain unsubscribe From owner-ibis Mon May 15 14:35:32 2000 Received: from lukla.Sun.COM (lukla.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA17513 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 14:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.25]) by lukla.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01033 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 15:33:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pakhi.Eng.Sun.COM (pakhi.Eng.Sun.COM [129.144.151.67]) by engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1/ENSMAIL,v1.6) with ESMTP id OAA08920 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 14:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pakhi (pakhi [129.144.151.67]) by pakhi.Eng.Sun.COM (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03761 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Kazi Hassan Reply-To: Kazi Hassan Subject: Please unsubscribe To: ibis-users@eda.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: 1B2M2Y8AsgTpgAmY7PhCfg== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.1.0 CDE Version 1.1.1 SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u sparc From owner-ibis Mon May 15 15:47:11 2000 Received: from mailhub.analogy.com (mailhub.analogy.com [149.117.1.3]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA17664 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 15:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outlook.analogy.com (nat-209.analogy.com [149.117.1.209]) by mailhub.analogy.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA19046 for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 15:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from analogy.com (sarah.analogy.com [149.117.24.12]) by outlook.analogy.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.10) id K7W5C0Z7; Mon, 15 May 2000 15:44:50 -0700 Sender: zheng@analogy.com Message-ID: <39207E23.75AC40F@analogy.com> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:45:55 -0700 From: Zheng Shi Organization: Symmetry Design Systems Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe From owner-ibis Tue May 16 03:28:35 2000 Received: from pilgrim.cisco.com (pilgrim.cisco.com [171.69.204.12]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id DAA20164 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 03:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com ([161.44.190.218]) by pilgrim.cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20332 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 06:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39212261.14585B9C@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 06:26:41 -0400 From: Tom Warneke Organization: Cisco Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe Please send instructions on how to unsubscribe if this is not the method. Thank you From owner-ibis Thu May 18 09:25:53 2000 Received: from jester.ti.com (jester.ti.com [192.94.94.1]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA02501 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 09:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dlep7.itg.ti.com ([157.170.134.103]) by jester.ti.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e4IGMiL03422 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 11:22:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dlep7.itg.ti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dlep7.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20346 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 11:23:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dlep4.itg.ti.com (dlep4.itg.ti.com [157.170.188.63]) by dlep7.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20326 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 11:23:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ti.com (lta0460542.sh.sc.ti.com [158.218.201.142]) by dlep4.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08275 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 11:23:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3924195E.76C457A8@ti.com> Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:25:02 -0500 From: Stephen Nolan Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated X-Sender: "Stephen Nolan" <@dshmail.itg.ti.com> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ja,ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS Series MOSFET Models - questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Question 1, In IBIS Version 3.2, Section 6, "Keyword: [Series MOSFET]" it states that "C_comp values are ignored for [Series MOSFET] models." How do you account for the Cio(off) and Cio(on) characteristics of the FET in the IBIS model? Question 2, In IBIS Version 3.2, Section 6, "Keyword: [Series MOSFET]", and Section 9.5, "Series MOSFET Table Extractions", it says that the voltage applied to the drain of the MOSFET is Vds, a fixed voltage difference between the drain and the source. Quoting from section 9.5: Vds is held constant by having a fixed voltage Vds between the drain and source nodes. However, the drawing shows a fixed voltage source between the drain and GROUND! | +----------------------------------------+ | | | | | Ids = Table Current | | | ---> | | +---<---| |--->----------+ | | d |_____| - s | + | | --+-- Vgs +---+---+ +----+----+ | | g + | Sweep | | Vs + | | | Vs | |Fixed Vds| | +---+---+ +----+----+ | | - | | GND GND | | Example of Series MOSFET Table Extraction I could see how this would result in a Vds voltage if Vs + was swept, so that it was always equal to the swept Vs+Vds, but it says "Fixed", not "Sweep". Shouldn't this drawing be as follows for a true Vds supply? | +---------+ | + | Vs + | - | +-----------+Fixed Vds|------+ | | +---------+ | | | | | | Ids = Table Current | | | ---> | | +---<---| |--->----------+ | d |_____| - s | + | --+-- Vgs +---+---+ | | g + | Sweep | | | Vs | | +---+---+ | | - | GND -- Regards, Stephen M. Nolan From owner-ibis Fri May 19 06:16:42 2000 Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA06847 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 06:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zip.Cadence.COM (zip.Cadence.COM [158.140.103.36]) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06537 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 06:14:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cadence.com (d15814010567 [158.140.105.67]) by zip.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11867 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 09:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <39253E46.E6C8259B@cadence.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:14:46 -0400 From: Mike LaBonte Organization: Cadence Design Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS Series MOSFET Models - questions References: <3924195E.76C457A8@ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Received: By mailgate.Cadence.COM as GAA06537 at Fri May 19 06:14:49 2000 Stephen, The figure in the IBIS specification is electrically equivalent to yours, although your version is easier to understand, in my opinion. The spec shows two swept sources with a DC offset between them. I prefer your notion of one fixed source and one swept source, closer to the hardware that would actually be used. I would like to see the diagrams also showing the attachment of the gate to Vcc, since it currently appears that the entire circuit just floats up and down with the sweep voltage. Then again, maybe the swept source should be attached between the source and gate, since we are attempting to sweep Vgs. By the way, has anyone found one of these series switch models available for public use? Mike Stephen Nolan wrote: > > Question 1, > > In IBIS Version 3.2, Section 6, "Keyword: [Series MOSFET]" it states that > "C_comp values are ignored for [Series MOSFET] models." How do you account for > the Cio(off) and Cio(on) characteristics of the FET in the IBIS model? > > Question 2, > In IBIS Version 3.2, Section 6, "Keyword: [Series MOSFET]", and Section 9.5, > "Series MOSFET Table Extractions", it says that the voltage applied to the drain > of the MOSFET is Vds, a fixed voltage difference between the drain and the > source. Quoting from section 9.5: > > Vds is held constant by having a fixed voltage Vds > between the drain and source nodes. > > However, the drawing shows a fixed voltage source between the drain and GROUND! > > | +----------------------------------------+ > | | | > | | Ids = Table Current | > | | ---> | > | +---<---| |--->----------+ | > | d |_____| - s | + | > | --+-- Vgs +---+---+ +----+----+ > | | g + | Sweep | | Vs + | > | | Vs | |Fixed Vds| > | +---+---+ +----+----+ > | | - | > | GND GND > | > | Example of Series MOSFET Table Extraction > > I could see how this would result in a Vds voltage if Vs + was swept, so that it > was always equal to the swept Vs+Vds, but it says "Fixed", not "Sweep". > > Shouldn't this drawing be as follows for a true Vds supply? > | +---------+ > | + | Vs + | - > | +-----------+Fixed Vds|------+ > | | +---------+ | > | | | > | | Ids = Table Current | > | | ---> | > | +---<---| |--->----------+ > | d |_____| - s | + > | --+-- Vgs +---+---+ > | | g + | Sweep | > | | Vs | > | +---+---+ > | | - > | GND > > -- > Regards, > Stephen M. Nolan From owner-ibis Fri May 19 07:23:15 2000 Received: from tower.ti.com (tower.ti.com [192.94.94.5]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA07180 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 07:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dlep8.itg.ti.com ([157.170.134.88]) by tower.ti.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e4JEKqn02002; Fri, 19 May 2000 09:20:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dlep8.itg.ti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dlep8.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16795; Fri, 19 May 2000 09:20:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dlep4.itg.ti.com (dlep4.itg.ti.com [157.170.188.63]) by dlep8.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16789; Fri, 19 May 2000 09:20:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ti.com (lta0460542.sh.sc.ti.com [158.218.201.142]) by dlep4.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14444; Fri, 19 May 2000 09:20:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <39254E1D.C5E0AEC5@ti.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:22:21 -0500 From: Stephen Nolan Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated X-Sender: "Stephen Nolan" <@dshmail.itg.ti.com> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ja,ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike LaBonte CC: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS Series MOSFET Models - questions References: <3924195E.76C457A8@ti.com> <39253E46.E6C8259B@cadence.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mike, I discussed this drawing with it's creator (Bob Ross) on the phone yesterday. It appears that it was the nomenclature in the drawing that I was misunderstanding. Here is another suggested improvement that I provided: | +----------------------------------------+ | | | | | Ids = Table Current | | | ---> | | +---<---| |--->----------+ | | d |_____| - s | + | | --+-- Vgs +---+---+ +----+----+ | | g + | Sweep | | Sweep | | | Vs | | Vs+Vds | | +---+---+ +----+----+ | | - | | GND GND | | Example of Series MOSFET Table Extraction The way that the power-supply on the drain was originally labeled, I had misunderstood it to be a FIXED supply (like a Vdd). With the labeling I propose above, I think it is more clear that this is a SWEPT supply that is always Vds above Vs. I agree with you that the gate supply should be illustrated also. There is an example model (Created by Mentor Graphics) of a TI CBT3383 part available at: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/samples/ver3.1/cbt.ibs Now another question: What table voltage do I use for Vgs, when the series switch is a parallel NMOS and PMOS? | gateP=GND | | | o | ======= Vgs-p | | | | ----<---+ +--->---- | d |_____| s | --+-- Vgs-n | | | gateN=Vcc -- Regards, Stephen M. Nolan Mike LaBonte wrote: > > Stephen, > > The figure in the IBIS specification is electrically equivalent to yours, > although your version is easier to understand, in my opinion. The spec > shows two swept sources with a DC offset between them. I prefer your notion > of one fixed source and one swept source, closer to the hardware that would > actually be used. > > I would like to see the diagrams also showing the attachment of the gate to Vcc, > since it currently appears that the entire circuit just floats up and down with the > sweep voltage. Then again, maybe the swept source should be attached between > the source and gate, since we are attempting to sweep Vgs. > > By the way, has anyone found one of these series switch models available for > public use? > > Mike > > Stephen Nolan wrote: > > > > Question 1, > > > > In IBIS Version 3.2, Section 6, "Keyword: [Series MOSFET]" it states that > > "C_comp values are ignored for [Series MOSFET] models." How do you account for > > the Cio(off) and Cio(on) characteristics of the FET in the IBIS model? > > > > Question 2, > > In IBIS Version 3.2, Section 6, "Keyword: [Series MOSFET]", and Section 9.5, > > "Series MOSFET Table Extractions", it says that the voltage applied to the drain > > of the MOSFET is Vds, a fixed voltage difference between the drain and the > > source. Quoting from section 9.5: > > > > Vds is held constant by having a fixed voltage Vds > > between the drain and source nodes. > > > > However, the drawing shows a fixed voltage source between the drain and GROUND! > > > > | +----------------------------------------+ > > | | | > > | | Ids = Table Current | > > | | ---> | > > | +---<---| |--->----------+ | > > | d |_____| - s | + | > > | --+-- Vgs +---+---+ +----+----+ > > | | g + | Sweep | | Vs + | > > | | Vs | |Fixed Vds| > > | +---+---+ +----+----+ > > | | - | > > | GND GND > > | > > | Example of Series MOSFET Table Extraction > > > > I could see how this would result in a Vds voltage if Vs + was swept, so that it > > was always equal to the swept Vs+Vds, but it says "Fixed", not "Sweep". > > > > Shouldn't this drawing be as follows for a true Vds supply? > > | +---------+ > > | + | Vs + | - > > | +-----------+Fixed Vds|------+ > > | | +---------+ | > > | | | > > | | Ids = Table Current | > > | | ---> | > > | +---<---| |--->----------+ > > | d |_____| - s | + > > | --+-- Vgs +---+---+ > > | | g + | Sweep | > > | | Vs | > > | +---+---+ > > | | - > > | GND > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Stephen M. Nolan From owner-ibis Fri May 19 07:44:20 2000 Received: from cambridge1-smrly3.gtei.net (cambridge1-smrly3.gtei.net [199.94.215.250]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA07264 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 07:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fairchild-cp.fairchildsemi.com (fairchild-cp.fairchildsemi.com [192.233.132.79]) by cambridge1-smrly3.gtei.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 90E0F3D09; Fri, 19 May 2000 14:42:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dnsbak.fairchildsemi.com ([172.21.18.5]) by fairchild-cp.fairchildsemi.com; Fri, 19 May 2000 10:42:25 +0000 (EST) Received: from spor02.fairchildsemi.com by fairchildsemi.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA00582; Fri, 19 May 2000 10:41:23 -0400 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by spf.fairchildsemi.com (PMDF V5.2-32 #43442) id <01JPKXUY1W1CDBGOQX@spf.fairchildsemi.com>; Fri, 19 May 2000 10:43:32 EDT Received: from fairchildsemi.com (cklein-fm.fairchildsemi.com [172.21.51.164]) by spf.fairchildsemi.com (PMDF V5.2-32 #43442) with ESMTP id <01JPKXUXS1WMDBGOSD@spf.fairchildsemi.com>; Fri, 19 May 2000 10:43:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:41:23 -0400 From: Christian Klein Subject: Re: IBIS Series MOSFET Models - questions To: Mike LaBonte Cc: ibis-users@eda.org Message-id: <39255292.C3110D96@fairchildsemi.com> Organization: Fairchild Semiconductor MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_6mSwmB7d7nV+WJKrmAJpSw)" X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR References: <3924195E.76C457A8@ti.com> <39253E46.E6C8259B@cadence.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_6mSwmB7d7nV+WJKrmAJpSw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mike, A while ago I created some Bus switch models. They can be found at: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/ibis/#fst -Christian Mike LaBonte wrote: > Stephen, > > The figure in the IBIS specification is electrically equivalent to yours, > although your version is easier to understand, in my opinion. The spec > shows two swept sources with a DC offset between them. I prefer your notion > of one fixed source and one swept source, closer to the hardware that would > actually be used. > > I would like to see the diagrams also showing the attachment of the gate to Vcc, > since it currently appears that the entire circuit just floats up and down with the > sweep voltage. Then again, maybe the swept source should be attached between > the source and gate, since we are attempting to sweep Vgs. > > By the way, has anyone found one of these series switch models available for > public use? > > Mike > > Stephen Nolan wrote: > > > > Question 1, > > > > In IBIS Version 3.2, Section 6, "Keyword: [Series MOSFET]" it states that > > "C_comp values are ignored for [Series MOSFET] models." How do you account for > > the Cio(off) and Cio(on) characteristics of the FET in the IBIS model? > > > > Question 2, > > In IBIS Version 3.2, Section 6, "Keyword: [Series MOSFET]", and Section 9.5, > > "Series MOSFET Table Extractions", it says that the voltage applied to the drain > > of the MOSFET is Vds, a fixed voltage difference between the drain and the > > source. Quoting from section 9.5: > > > > Vds is held constant by having a fixed voltage Vds > > between the drain and source nodes. > > > > However, the drawing shows a fixed voltage source between the drain and GROUND! > > > > | +----------------------------------------+ > > | | | > > | | Ids = Table Current | > > | | ---> | > > | +---<---| |--->----------+ | > > | d |_____| - s | + | > > | --+-- Vgs +---+---+ +----+----+ > > | | g + | Sweep | | Vs + | > > | | Vs | |Fixed Vds| > > | +---+---+ +----+----+ > > | | - | > > | GND GND > > | > > | Example of Series MOSFET Table Extraction > > > > I could see how this would result in a Vds voltage if Vs + was swept, so that it > > was always equal to the swept Vs+Vds, but it says "Fixed", not "Sweep". > > > > Shouldn't this drawing be as follows for a true Vds supply? > > | +---------+ > > | + | Vs + | - > > | +-----------+Fixed Vds|------+ > > | | +---------+ | > > | | | > > | | Ids = Table Current | > > | | ---> | > > | +---<---| |--->----------+ > > | d |_____| - s | + > > | --+-- Vgs +---+---+ > > | | g + | Sweep | > > | | Vs | > > | +---+---+ > > | | - > > | GND > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Stephen M. Nolan --Boundary_(ID_6mSwmB7d7nV+WJKrmAJpSw) Content-type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="Christian.Klein.vcf" Content-description: Card for Christian Klein Content-disposition: attachment; filename="Christian.Klein.vcf" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit begin:vcard n:Klein;Christian tel;work:(207) 761-6242 x-mozilla-html:TRUE org: adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:Christian.Klein@fairchildsemi.com title:Applications Engineer fn:Christian Klein end:vcard --Boundary_(ID_6mSwmB7d7nV+WJKrmAJpSw)-- From owner-ibis Mon May 22 04:42:26 2000 Received: from mxbh4.isus.emc.com (mxbh4.isus.emc.com [168.159.208.52]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id EAA17777 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 04:42:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Kanal_Bashu@emc.com Received: by mxbh4.isus.emc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 07:40:02 -0400 Message-ID: <0DD20620B8B8D311985F00D0B708153B20AC2D@corpmx6.isus.emc.com> To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS connector model Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 07:39:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BFC3E2.76D5D094" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BFC3E2.76D5D094 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am trying to extract a topology using SpectraQuest, but cannot because of the following error. "Errors: Connector With Active pin". The model is attached to this message. Can anyone clarify the proper use of connector models in circuit simulation or provide me with a connector model? Regards, Bashu Kanal EMC Corporation Design Verification Group <> ------_=_NextPart_000_01BFC3E2.76D5D094 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="conn149.ibs" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="conn149.ibs" |***********************************************************************= * =0A= | SECTION primitive 'JACK_5' = =0A= |***********************************************************************= * =0A= [IBIS Ver] 3.2 =0A= [File Name] conn149.ibs =0A= [File Rev] 1.0 =0A= [Source] =0A= [Date] Tue Nov 3 15:06:56 EST 1998=0A= [Notes] 1. Temp Typ=3D25C, Min=3D100C, Max=3D0C 2. Ramp rates based =0A= on 500 ohm load =0A= |[Copyright 1997, DRC Technology, Inc.] =0A= [Disclaimer] =0A= |***********************************************************************= * =0A= | =0A= [Component] CONN149 =0A= [Manufacturer] CONN =0A= [Package] =0A= | variable typ min max =0A= R_pkg 0.022m NA NA=0A= L_pkg 11.13nH NA NA=0A= C_pkg 0.022pF NA NA=0A= | =0A= [Pin] signal_name model_name R_pin L_pin C_pin = =0A= | =0A= 1 SIGNAL CONN149 =0A= 2 POWER POWER =0A= 3 SIGNAL CONN149=0A= 4 GND GND =0A= 5 GND GND 6 SIGNAL CONN149=20 7 GND GND 8 SIGNAL CONN149 9 GND GND 10 SIGNAL CONN149 11 SIGNAL CONN149 12 SIGNAL CONN149 13 GND GND 14 SIGNAL CONN149 15 SIGNAL CONN149 16 GND GND 17 SIGNAL CONN149 18 SIGNAL CONN149 19 GND GND 20 GND GND 21 SIGNAL CONN149 22 SIGNAL CONN149 23 GND GND 24 SIGNAL CONN149 25 SIGNAL CONN149 26 GND GND 27 SIGNAL CONN149 28 SIGNAL CONN149 29 SIGNAL CONN149 30 GND GND 31 SIGNAL CONN149 32 GND GND=20 33 SIGNAL CONN149 34 GND GND 35 GND GND 36 SIGNAL CONN149 37 POWER POWER 38 POWER POWER 39 POWER POWER 40 POWER POWER 41 SIGNAL CONN149 42 SIGNAL CONN149 43 SIGNAL CONN149 44 SIGNAL CONN149 45 SIGNAL CONN149 46 SIGNAL CONN149 47 SIGNAL CONN149 48 SIGNAL CONN149 49 GND GND 50 SIGNAL CONN149 51 GND GND=20 52 SIGNAL CONN149 53 SIGNAL CONN149 54 GND GND 55 SIGNAL CONN149 56 SIGNAL CONN149 57 GND GND 58 GND GND 59 SIGNAL CONN149 60 SIGNAL CONN149 61 GND GND 62 SIGNAL CONN149 63 SIGNAL CONN149 64 GND GND 65 SIGNAL CONN149 66 GND GND 67 SIGNAL CONN149 68 SIGNAL CONN149 69 SIGNAL CONN149 70 SIGNAL CONN149 71 SIGNAL CONN149 72 SIGNAL CONN149 73 SIGNAL CONN149 74 SIGNAL CONN149 75 POWER POWER 76 SIGNAL CONN149 77 POWER CONN149 78 POWER POWER 79 SIGNAL CONN149 80 GND GND 81 GND GND 82 SIGNAL CONN149 83 GND GND 84 SIGNAL CONN149 85 GND GND 86 SIGNAL CONN149 87 SIGNAL CONN149 88 GND GND 89 SIGNAL CONN149 90 SIGNAL CONN149 91 GND GND 92 SIGNAL CONN149 93 SIGNAL CONN149 94 GND GND 95 SIGNAL CONN149 96 SIGNAL CONN149 97 GND GND 98 SIGNAL CONN149 99 SIGNAL CONN149 100 GND GND 101 SIGNAL CONN149 102 SIGNAL CONN149 103 GND GND 104 SIGNAL CONN149 105 GND GND 106 SIGNAL CONN149 107 GND GND 108 GND GND 109 SIGNAL CONN149 110 POWER POWER 111 POWER POWER 112 POWER POWER 113 POWER POWER 114 SIGNAL CONN149 115 SIGNAL CONN149 116 SIGNAL CONN149 117 SIGNAL CONN149 118 SIGNAL CONN149 119 SIGNAL CONN149 120 SIGNAL CONN149 121 SIGNAL CONN149 122 GND GND 123 SIGNAL CONN149 124 GND GND 125 SIGNAL CONN149 126 SIGNAL CONN149 127 GND GND 128 SIGNAL CONN149 129 SIGNAL CONN149 130 SIGNAL CONN149 131 GND GND 132 SIGNAL CONN149 133 SIGNAL CONN149 134 GND GND 135 SIGNAL CONN149 136 SIGNAL CONN149 137 GND GND 138 SIGNAL CONN149 139 GND GND 140 SIGNAL CONN149 141 SIGNAL CONN149 142 SIGNAL CONN149 143 SIGNAL CONN149 144 SIGNAL CONN149 145 SIGNAL CONN149 146 SIGNAL CONN149 147 SIGNAL CONN149 148 POWER POWER 149 POWER POWER |=0A= [Model] CONN149=0A= Model_type Terminator=0A= | typ min max=0A= C_comp 3p NA NA=0A= |=0A= [Voltage range] 3.3V NA NA=0A= |=0A= [End] =0A= ------_=_NextPart_000_01BFC3E2.76D5D094-- From owner-ibis Mon May 22 06:44:52 2000 Received: from baynet.baynetworks.com (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA18433 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 06:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h016b.s86b1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.1.107]) by baynet.baynetworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA23286; Mon, 22 May 2000 06:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01451; Mon, 22 May 2000 06:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com (dhcp149-126 [192.32.149.126]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with SMTP id JAA11107; Mon, 22 May 2000 09:42:19 -0400 for Reply-To: From: "Ross Pryor" To: , Subject: RE: IBIS connector model Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:42:24 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bfc3f3$90456740$7e9520c0@rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <0DD20620B8B8D311985F00D0B708153B20AC2D@corpmx6.isus.emc.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 I believe this error is due to the "pinuse" property of your connector pins in the Allegro symbol for the connector. You need to set the property to "unspec" on all connector pins. -----Original Message----- From: Kanal_Bashu@emc.com [mailto:Kanal_Bashu@emc.com] Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 7:40 AM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS connector model I am trying to extract a topology using SpectraQuest, but cannot because of the following error. "Errors: Connector With Active pin". The model is attached to this message. Can anyone clarify the proper use of connector models in circuit simulation or provide me with a connector model? Regards, Bashu Kanal EMC Corporation Design Verification Group <> From owner-ibis Mon May 22 06:49:48 2000 Received: from pop.nwlink.com (pop.nwlink.com [209.20.130.39]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA18454 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 06:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hyperstar (ip34.du1.lynn.nwlink.com [209.20.140.34]) by pop.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA24533; Mon, 22 May 2000 06:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200005221347.GAA24533@pop.nwlink.com> X-Sender: kellee@pop.nwlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 06:47:59 -0700 To: Kanal_Bashu@emc.com, ibis-users@eda.org From: Kellee Crisafulli Subject: Re: IBIS connector model In-Reply-To: <0DD20620B8B8D311985F00D0B708153B20AC2D@corpmx6.isus.emc.co m> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Kanal, At this point no company should be offering IBIS connector models. We have not released the standard yet and it is still changing. We do expect this work to be completed soon however. best wishes.. Kellee Crisafulli From owner-ibis Mon May 22 07:51:47 2000 Received: from maho3msx2.isus.emc.com (maho3msx2.isus.emc.com [168.159.208.81]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA18754 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 07:51:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Kanal_Bashu@emc.com Received: by maho3msx2.isus.emc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:49:15 -0400 Message-ID: <0DD20620B8B8D311985F00D0B708153B20AC2F@corpmx6.isus.emc.com> To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Please remove a model Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:49:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To whom it may concern, A misunderstanding has occurred. I sent a message and attachment regarding an issue with model conn149.ibs. It was not my intention to have this model posted on the web. It is a modified connector model with copyright information in the header as it appears to have been written by a third party. I do not want anyone to mistakenly confuse this model with or associate it with the author listed in the header, therefore would you please remove it from the website. Thank you, Bashu Kanal From owner-ibis Mon May 22 07:57:56 2000 Received: from mailgate2.Cadence.COM (mailgate2.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.31]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA18780 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 07:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gda.Cadence.COM (gda.Cadence.COM [158.140.106.10]) by mailgate2.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01290; Mon, 22 May 2000 07:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pc-toddw3 (d15814010590 [158.140.105.90]) by gda.Cadence.COM (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12490; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000522104007.00c96100@gda.cadence.com> X-Sender: toddw@gda.cadence.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:55:55 -0400 To: Kanal_Bashu@emc.com, ibis-users@eda.org From: Todd Westerhoff Subject: Re: IBIS connector model In-Reply-To: <0DD20620B8B8D311985F00D0B708153B20AC2D@corpmx6.isus.emc.co m> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Received: By mailgate2.Cadence.COM as HAA01290 at Mon May 22 07:56:01 2000 Kanal, I've seen several responses to your email, some of which were sent to you privately, but I'll overview the answer for the group: The error message "Connector with Active Pin" points to a problem with the way device CLASS and PINUSE properties are set in your database. A PCB database, by itself, is a physical database that can be used to manufacture a board. If you want to accurately model the design for simulation, there is additional information that the simulation tools need: 1- an accurate description of the PCB cross-section (Stackup) 2- definitions of which nets are tied to which power supplies 3- an understanding of each device's electrical purpose (i.e. an IC? a resistor pack? a connector?) 4- specific simulation models for critical high speed components 5- reasonable "default" simulation models for non-critical components without a specific model Your issue is with point #3. Allegro/SPECCTRAQuest use the properties of CLASS and PINUSE to define the device's type (CLASS = IC, DISCRETE or IO) and the function of the pins within the device (PINUSE). The error message you refer to states that the system has found a connector (CLASS = IO) with a PINUSE other than UNSPEC. The systems expects the PINUSE for a connector (CLASS = IO) to be UNSPECified because the device is assumed to be passive. The usual issue is that a company's Allegro device library doesn't set the CLASS and PINUSE properties correctly, because the people who build the parts libraries aren't aware of the electrical requirements. There are two ways to address the issue: 1. If the people who maintain your device libraries are willing to update their device files, great. 2. The "database setup advisor" introduced in the 13.6 release will guide you through the process of setting up the properties in your database, independent of addressing any fixes to the libraries. This sets the properties directly in the individual .brd file. For everyone else, my apologies for getting into so many tool-specific issues in a public forum. The question was asked publicly, and I figured it would probably benefit a number of people to answer the question (at least to the first level) the same way. Anyone who needs more detail, let's please take this on off the reflect - feel free to contact me @ toddw@cadence.com. Todd. At 07:39 AM 5/22/2000 -0400, Kanal_Bashu@emc.com wrote: >I am trying to extract a topology using SpectraQuest, but cannot because >of the following error. "Errors: Connector With Active pin". The model is >attached to this message. Can anyone clarify the proper use of connector >models in circuit simulation or provide me with a connector model? > >Regards, > >Bashu Kanal >EMC Corporation >Design Verification Group > <> Todd Westerhoff Product Marketing Director | High Speed Systems Design | Performance Engineering Cadence Design Systems | 270 Billerica Road | Chelmsford, MA 01824 ph: (978) 262-6327 fx: (978) 446-6798 email: toddw@cadence.com internal information website: http://www-ma.cadence.com/~toddw From owner-ibis Mon May 22 08:28:47 2000 Received: from e23.nc.us.ibm.com (e23.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.229]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA18886 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 08:28:46 -0700 (PDT) From: micohen@us.ibm.com Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e23.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15178; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:07:00 -0500 Received: from d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com (d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com [9.67.228.36]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.9) with SMTP id LAA27196; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:26:20 -0400 Received: by d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 852568E7.0054CDF8 ; Mon, 22 May 2000 11:26:17 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMUS To: Kanal_Bashu@emc.com cc: ibis-users@eda.org Message-ID: <852568E7.0054C9AA.00@d54mta04.raleigh.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:21:11 -0400 Subject: Re: IBIS connector model Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Kanal, From within SPECCTRAQuest or Allegro, ensure that the "CLASS" of the connector is set to "IO"; by default, it probably is set to "IC". Also, ensure that the "PINUSE" is set to "UNSPEC" for each of the pins on the connector. Then, from within the SPECCTRAQuest Model Assignment menu, create or edit an/the IBIS Device, but ensure no IO buffers are assigned to any pin (including, but not limited to CDSDefault*). Regards, Michael Cohen From owner-ibis Mon May 22 08:49:33 2000 Received: from gateway.sequent.com (gateway.sequent.com [192.148.1.10]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA19013 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 08:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chaos.sequent.com (chaos.sequent.com [138.95.19.10]) by gateway.sequent.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01950; Mon, 22 May 2000 08:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by chaos.sequent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 08:46:59 -0700 Message-ID: <0593FCC88F76D2118B4400E029249BD907E5A6E1@wingnut.sequent.com> From: "Le, Dat (dle)" To: "'rpryor@nortelnetworks.com'" , Kanal_Bashu@emc.com, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: IBIS connector model Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:46:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) Content-Type: text/plain Are you trying to extract the topology from a board2board file? Specctraquest has a feature called "Design link". In this window, you can specify the pin to pin interconnection, the length and a pointer to your "dml" conn model. This's another area Specctraquest would spit out error message if your conn model has a pin count or pin reference mismatch with Allegro boardfile. Note your conn.ibs file will need to translated to Specctraquest DML format. I use ibis2signoise to do this. Yes, Specctraquest v13.5 or newer should be able to translate Ibis v 3.1 pkg format. As far as obtaining model, I had similar problem obtaining Ibis conn model. Depend on your simulation accuracy requirement, it's pretty easy to create a simple lumped single line PCI model in Specctraquest. You can obtain SLM and MLM data from AMP or other conn vendors. More accurate pkg/conn model will need to be translated directly from vendor Spice format to Cadence K-spice format. Unfortunately, 6 months ago I inquired Cadence regarding of an automate script to do the spice translation without any success. Specctraquest does have sample of generic pkg models shipped with this tool. Dat Le ***************************************** System Engineer IBM-NumaQ dle@sequent.com (503)578-3412 ***************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Pryor [SMTP:rpryor@nortelnetworks.com] > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 6:42 AM > To: Kanal_Bashu@emc.com; ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: RE: IBIS connector model > > I believe this error is due to the "pinuse" property of your connector pins > in the Allegro symbol for the connector. You need to > set the property to "unspec" on all connector pins. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kanal_Bashu@emc.com [mailto:Kanal_Bashu@emc.com] > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 7:40 AM > To: ibis-users@eda.org > Subject: IBIS connector model > > > I am trying to extract a topology using SpectraQuest, but cannot because > of the following error. "Errors: Connector With Active pin". The model is > attached to this message. Can anyone clarify the proper use of connector > models in circuit simulation or provide me with a connector model? > > Regards, > > Bashu Kanal > EMC Corporation > Design Verification Group > <> From owner-ibis Mon May 22 09:38:13 2000 Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA19313 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 09:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gda.Cadence.COM (gda.Cadence.COM [158.140.106.10]) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29276 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 09:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pc-toddw3 (d15814010590 [158.140.105.90]) by gda.Cadence.COM (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA18061; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000522123404.00a4df00@gda.cadence.com> X-Sender: toddw@gda.cadence.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:36:15 -0400 To: ibis-users@eda.org From: Todd Westerhoff Subject: Clarification - IBIS connector model Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Received: By mailgate.Cadence.COM as JAA29276 at Mon May 22 09:36:20 2000 ... "Anyone who needs more detail, let's please take this on off the reflect" Wow. Serves me for trying to type and hold a conversation at the same time. What I MEANT to say, was: "Anyone who needs more detail, let's please continue this off the reflector" - feel free to contact me @ toddw@cadence.com. Todd. At 07:39 AM 5/22/2000 -0400, Kanal_Bashu@emc.com wrote: >I am trying to extract a topology using SpectraQuest, but cannot because >of the following error. "Errors: Connector With Active pin". The model is >attached to this message. Can anyone clarify the proper use of connector >models in circuit simulation or provide me with a connector model? > >Regards, > >Bashu Kanal >EMC Corporation >Design Verification Group > <> Todd Westerhoff Product Marketing Director | High Speed Systems Design | Performance Engineering Cadence Design Systems | 270 Billerica Road | Chelmsford, MA 01824 ph: (978) 262-6327 fx: (978) 446-6798 email: toddw@cadence.com internal information website: http://www-ma.cadence.com/~toddw From owner-ibis Wed May 24 17:40:14 2000 Received: from TYO202.gate.nec.co.jp (TYO202.gate.nec.co.jp [202.247.6.41]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA00823 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 17:40:12 -0700 (PDT) From: akimoto@lsi.nec.co.jp Received: from mailsv4.nec.co.jp (mailsv4-le1 [192.168.1.93]) by TYO202.gate.nec.co.jp (8.9.3/3.7W00052210) with ESMTP id JAA17944 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:38:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from sdlcs41.ulsys.lsi.nec.co.jp ([10.30.83.191]) by mailsv4.nec.co.jp (8.9.3/3.7W-MAILSV4-NEC) with ESMTP id JAA20518 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:38:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from sdlpc109 (sdlpc109.ulsys.lsi.nec.co.jp [10.30.83.109]) by sdlcs41.ulsys.lsi.nec.co.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7Wlsi_mx_6.0) with SMTP id JAA09940; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:38:10 +0900 (JST) To: ibis-users@eda.org Cc: yasufumi@lsi.nec.co.jp Subject: [Q] off leak current? Reply-To: akimoto@lsi.nec.co.jp Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:38:27 +0900 Message-Id: <20000525093827akimoto@sdlcs41.ulsys.lsi.nec.co.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WeMail32[1.96A] ID:1B0160 I have a question about the IBIS modeling. Where should we put the off leak current into? 1) Both CLAMP curves and PULLUP/DOWN curves? 2) Only CLAMP curves? 3) Only PULLUP/DOWN curves? 4) Nothing? (Same as resistor?) I'm afraid how the board simulators get this information from IBIS model. Please, don't ask me more about the off leak current. ^_^ Best regards, Akimoto ------------------------------------------------------ Akimoto Tetsuya Design systems dep. System LSI Design Engineering Div. NEC Electron Devices, NEC Corporation Email:akimoto@lsi.nec.co.jp Phone:044-435-1513 From owner-ibis Thu May 25 17:45:48 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA05819; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id RAA13822; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id RAA12073; Thu, 25 May 2000 17:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <392DC8A9.149ED8BA@mentor.com> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:43:21 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: akimoto@lsi.nec.co.jp CC: ibis-users@eda.org, yasufumi@lsi.nec.co.jp, ibis@eda.org Subject: Re: [Q] off leak current? References: <20000525093827akimoto@sdlcs41.ulsys.lsi.nec.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Akimoto: The answer is 2. Clamp curves. When the leakage current is significant, or there are internal terminators, care must be exercised in which clamp table the information should be entered to avoid double counting. 1. If the leakage is to ground (or the lower rail), then all of the leakage current should be put in the [Gnd Clamp] and techically, the [Gnd Clamp] range should be extended from -Vcc to 2 Vcc. 2. If the leakage is from Vcc than all of the leakage current should be put into the [Power Clamp] and its range also extended from -Vcc to 2 Vcc. 3. If the leakage is from both Vcc and Gnd paths, then the appropriate leakage contributions should be present in both the extended [Power Clamp] and [Gnd Clamp] tables. This applies to internal terminators as well. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics akimoto@lsi.nec.co.jp wrote: > > I have a question about the IBIS modeling. > > Where should we put the off leak current into? > 1) Both CLAMP curves and PULLUP/DOWN curves? > 2) Only CLAMP curves? > 3) Only PULLUP/DOWN curves? > 4) Nothing? (Same as resistor?) > > I'm afraid how the board simulators get this information > from IBIS model. > Please, don't ask me more about the off leak current. ^_^ > > Best regards, > Akimoto > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Akimoto Tetsuya > Design systems dep. System LSI Design Engineering Div. > NEC Electron Devices, NEC Corporation > Email:akimoto@lsi.nec.co.jp Phone:044-435-1513 From owner-ibis Tue May 30 05:43:53 2000 Received: from ns01.newbridge.com (ns01.newbridge.com [192.75.23.67]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id FAA25623 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 05:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by ns01.newbridge.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) id IAA18629 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 08:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from portal1.newbridge.com(192.75.23.76), claiming to be "kanata-mh1.ca.newbridge.com" via SMTP by ns01.newbridge.com, id smtpdGAAwFV.8_; Tue May 30 08:35:28 2000 Received: from kanmail02.ca.newbridge.com by kanata-mh1.ca.newbridge.com with ESMTP for ibis-users@vhdl.org; Tue, 30 May 2000 08:41:52 -0400 Received: from newbridge.com ([138.120.41.2]) by kanmail02.ca.newbridge.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1E8A for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 08:41:57 -0400 Sender: "Fethi Bellamine" Message-Id: <3933B6DC.3A1D0742@newbridge.com> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:41:00 -0400 From: Fethi Bellamine Organization: Newbridge Networks Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@vhdl.org Subject: subscription Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit subscribe Fethi Bellamine