From owner-ibis Wed Jan 5 10:32:36 2000 Received: from tower.ti.com (tower.ti.com [192.94.94.5]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA04707 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:32:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from dlep9.itg.ti.com ([157.170.135.38]) by tower.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22343 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:31:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from dlep9.itg.ti.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dlep9.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18986 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:31:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from dlep4.itg.ti.com (dlep4.itg.ti.com [157.170.188.63]) by dlep9.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18981 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:31:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from ti.com (lta0460542.sh.sc.ti.com [158.218.201.142]) by dlep4.itg.ti.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25468 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:31:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <38738DE8.5BD9C09@ti.com> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:31:04 -0600 From: Stephen Nolan Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated X-Sender: "Stephen Nolan" <@dshmail.itg.ti.com> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS model creation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been reading the draft version of the "IBIS FORUM I/O BUFFER MODELING COOKBOOK - Revision 2.0X (under development)" In the section entitled "Making Pullup and Power Clamp Sweeps Vcc Relative" it states that you should make your three sweeps Vcc relative. Example: min=-3.6 to 6.3, typ=-3.3 to 6.6, and max=-3.0 to 6.9. In this case, there would be table data created for the min column from -3.6 to -3.3 where no typ data exists. Also, there would be data in the max column from 6.6 to 6.9 where no typ data exists. In those ranges, the typ column would have to include NAs. Is this legal? The IBIS spec (Version 3.2) says: "NA" can be used for currents in the typical column, but numeric values MUST be specified for the first and last voltage points on any I-V table. As I read this, the typ table would have NA values for both the first and last voltage points on the I-V table, by following this method. And the example given in the IBIS spec ranges ONLY from -5 to 10 V and does not include the additional data suggested by the "Making Pullup and Power Clamp Sweeps Vcc Relative" section of the Cookbook. Thanks. -- Regards, Stephen M. Nolan From owner-ibis Wed Jan 5 11:32:03 2000 Received: from scallop.baynetworks.com (ns5.baynetworks.com [194.133.90.101]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA05008 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:32:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h8754.s84f5.BayNetworks.COM [132.245.135.84]) by scallop.baynetworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA13070; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 20:33:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07767; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:25:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com (dhcp149-126 [192.32.149.126]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with SMTP id OAA13491; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:30:32 -0500 for Reply-To: From: "Ross Pryor" To: "'Stephen Nolan'" , Subject: RE: IBIS model creation Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:33:28 -0500 Message-ID: <001801bf57b3$be7d2be0$7e9520c0@rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <38738DE8.5BD9C09@ti.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Stephen, The data are tabulated after the vcc-relative calculation, vtable=vcc-vout. After the calculation, the data have the same range. For a pullup curve, the following table may help: (vout) (vtable) sweep vcc-relative corner vcc range range ------ --- ----- ------------- min 3.0 -3.6 > 6.3 6.6 > -3.3 typ 3.3 -3.3 > 6.6 6.6 > -3.3 max 3.6 -3.0 > 6.9 6.6 > -3.3 Regards, Ross -------------- Ross Pryor Nortel Networks Billerica, MA (978) 288-3811 ESN 248-3811 rpryor@nortelnetworks.com -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Nolan [mailto:s-nolan1@ti.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 1:31 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS model creation I've been reading the draft version of the "IBIS FORUM I/O BUFFER MODELING COOKBOOK - Revision 2.0X (under development)" In the section entitled "Making Pullup and Power Clamp Sweeps Vcc Relative" it states that you should make your three sweeps Vcc relative. Example: min=-3.6 to 6.3, typ=-3.3 to 6.6, and max=-3.0 to 6.9. In this case, there would be table data created for the min column from -3.6 to -3.3 where no typ data exists. Also, there would be data in the max column from 6.6 to 6.9 where no typ data exists. In those ranges, the typ column would have to include NAs. Is this legal? The IBIS spec (Version 3.2) says: "NA" can be used for currents in the typical column, but numeric values MUST be specified for the first and last voltage points on any I-V table. As I read this, the typ table would have NA values for both the first and last voltage points on the I-V table, by following this method. And the example given in the IBIS spec ranges ONLY from -5 to 10 V and does not include the additional data suggested by the "Making Pullup and Power Clamp Sweeps Vcc Relative" section of the Cookbook. Thanks. -- Regards, Stephen M. Nolan From owner-ibis Wed Jan 5 11:33:20 2000 Received: from pop.nwlink.com (pop.nwlink.com [209.20.130.39]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA05016 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:33:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip210.c246.blk1.bel.nwlink.com (ip210.c246.blk1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.246.210]) by pop.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA29239; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:32:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200001051932.LAA29239@pop.nwlink.com> Received: from KELLEE98 by ip210.c246.blk1.bel.nwlink.com via smtpd (for mail.nwlink.com [209.20.130.40]) with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 19:33:53 UT X-Sender: kellee@pop.nwlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 11:32:26 -0800 To: Stephen Nolan , ibis-users@eda.org From: Kellee Crisafulli Subject: Re: IBIS model creation a few comments... In-Reply-To: <38738DE8.5BD9C09@ti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by server.eda.org id LAA05017 At 12:31 PM 1/5/00 -0600, Stephen Nolan wrote: >In the section entitled "Making Pullup and Power Clamp Sweeps Vcc Relative" it >states that you should make your three sweeps Vcc relative. Example: min=-3.6 to >6.3, typ=-3.3 to 6.6, and max=-3.0 to 6.9. > >In this case, there would be table data created for the min column from -3.6 to >-3.3 where no typ data exists. Also, there would be data in the max column from >6.6 to 6.9 where no typ data exists. In those ranges, the typ column would have >to include NAs. Is this legal? Yes; I believe it is legal. However I suggest you make life simple and sweep them all from -3.6 to 6.9. I don't see any reason not to and it eliminates the whole issue (KIS principle). best wishes.. Kellee --------------------------------------------------------- Have a great day.... Kellee Crisafulli HyperLynx, a division of Pads Software Inc. SI,EMC,X-talk and IBIS tools for the Windows platform E-mail: web:   --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ibis Wed Jan 5 12:12:35 2000 Received: from scallop.baynetworks.com (ns5.baynetworks.com [194.133.90.101]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA05118 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h8754.s84f5.BayNetworks.COM [132.245.135.84]) by scallop.baynetworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA13802; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 21:13:36 +0100 (MET) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09675; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:05:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com (dhcp149-126 [192.32.149.126]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with SMTP id PAA23298; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:10:18 -0500 for Reply-To: From: "Ross Pryor" To: "'Kellee Crisafulli'" , Subject: RE: IBIS model creation a few comments... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:13:14 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01bf57b9$4cec8b00$7e9520c0@rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200001051932.LAA29239@pop.nwlink.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Yikes, that's not a good idea for pullup and power clamp curves. What you suggest will make life much more difficult for the curves which have to be made vcc-relative. Sorry to be repetitive. The data are tabulated after the vcc-relative calculation, vtable=vcc-vout. After the calculation, the data have the same range. For a pullup curve, the following table may help: (vout) (vtable) sweep vcc-relative corner vcc range range ------ --- ----- ------------- min 3.0 -3.6 > 6.3 6.6 > -3.3 typ 3.3 -3.3 > 6.6 6.6 > -3.3 max 3.6 -3.0 > 6.9 6.6 > -3.3 Regards, Ross -----Original Message----- From: Kellee Crisafulli [mailto:kellee@hyperlynx.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:32 PM To: Stephen Nolan; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS model creation a few comments... At 12:31 PM 1/5/00 -0600, Stephen Nolan wrote: >In the section entitled "Making Pullup and Power Clamp Sweeps Vcc Relative" it >states that you should make your three sweeps Vcc relative. Example: min=-3.6 to >6.3, typ=-3.3 to 6.6, and max=-3.0 to 6.9. > >In this case, there would be table data created for the min column from -3.6 to >-3.3 where no typ data exists. Also, there would be data in the max column from >6.6 to 6.9 where no typ data exists. In those ranges, the typ column would have >to include NAs. Is this legal? Yes; I believe it is legal. However I suggest you make life simple and sweep them all from -3.6 to 6.9. I don't see any reason not to and it eliminates the whole issue (KIS principle). best wishes.. Kellee --------------------------------------------------------- Have a great day.... Kellee Crisafulli HyperLynx, a division of Pads Software Inc. SI,EMC,X-talk and IBIS tools for the Windows platform E-mail: web:   --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ibis Wed Jan 5 12:27:23 2000 Received: from pop.nwlink.com (pop.nwlink.com [209.20.130.39]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA05160 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip210.c246.blk1.bel.nwlink.com (ip210.c246.blk1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.246.210]) by pop.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18443; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:25:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200001052025.MAA18443@pop.nwlink.com> Received: from KELLEE98 by ip210.c246.blk1.bel.nwlink.com via smtpd (for mail.nwlink.com [209.20.130.40]) with SMTP; 5 Jan 2000 20:26:38 UT X-Sender: kellee@pop.nwlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:25:06 -0800 To: , From: Kellee Crisafulli Subject: RE: IBIS model creation a few comments... In-Reply-To: <001a01bf57b9$4cec8b00$7e9520c0@rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetwor ks.com> References: <200001051932.LAA29239@pop.nwlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by server.eda.org id MAA05161 Hi Stephen, all Oops.. Ross is correct. my appologies... best wishes.. Kellee At 03:13 PM 1/5/00 -0500, Ross Pryor wrote: >Yikes, that's not a good idea for pullup and power clamp curves. What you suggest will make life much more difficult for the curves >which have to be made vcc-relative. > >Sorry to be repetitive. The data are tabulated after the vcc-relative calculation, vtable=vcc-vout. After the calculation, the data >have the same range. > >For a pullup curve, the following table may help: > > (vout) (vtable) > sweep vcc-relative >corner vcc range range >------ --- ----- ------------- >min 3.0 -3.6 > 6.3 6.6 > -3.3 >typ 3.3 -3.3 > 6.6 6.6 > -3.3 >max 3.6 -3.0 > 6.9 6.6 > -3.3 > >Regards, >Ross >-----Original Message----- >From: Kellee Crisafulli [mailto:kellee@hyperlynx.com] >Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:32 PM >To: Stephen Nolan; ibis-users@eda.org >Subject: Re: IBIS model creation a few comments... > > > >At 12:31 PM 1/5/00 -0600, Stephen Nolan wrote: >>In the section entitled "Making Pullup and Power Clamp Sweeps Vcc >Relative" it >>states that you should make your three sweeps Vcc relative. Example: >min=-3.6 to >>6.3, typ=-3.3 to 6.6, and max=-3.0 to 6.9. >> >>In this case, there would be table data created for the min column from >-3.6 to >>-3.3 where no typ data exists. Also, there would be data in the max column >from >>6.6 to 6.9 where no typ data exists. In those ranges, the typ column would >have >>to include NAs. Is this legal? >Yes; I believe it is legal. > >However I suggest you make life simple and sweep them all from -3.6 to 6.9. >I don't see any reason not to and it eliminates the whole issue (KIS >principle). > >best wishes.. >Kellee > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Have a great day.... >Kellee Crisafulli >HyperLynx, a division of Pads Software Inc. >SI,EMC,X-talk and IBIS tools for the Windows platform >E-mail: >web: >--------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------- Have a great day.... Kellee Crisafulli HyperLynx, a division of Pads Software Inc. SI,EMC,X-talk and IBIS tools for the Windows platform E-mail: web:   --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-ibis Thu Jan 6 10:52:07 2000 Received: from mailhost.avanticorp.com (uucp@mailhost.avanticorp.com [207.220.204.13]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA11505 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:52:06 -0800 (PST) From: nikolai@avanticorp.com Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mailhost.avanticorp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14001 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from arcs100.svd.avanticorp.com(172.16.0.170) via SMTP by shamu.avanticorp.com, id smtpdAAAAY7kp_; Thu Jan 6 10:51:03 2000 Received: from av20121.svd.avanticorp.com (av20121.svd.avanticorp.com [172.16.20.121]) by arcs100.svd.avanticorp.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15310 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nikolai@localhost) by av20121.svd.avanticorp.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id KAA03486 for ibis-users@eda.org; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:51:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:51:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200001061851.KAA03486@av20121.svd.avanticorp.com> To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: IBIS model creation X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Happy new year IBISians, It's kind of silly but I can not reproduce arithmetics from the attached email. Here is mine: Vcc Vout Vtable min 3.0 from -3.0 to 6.0 from 6.0 to -3.0 typ 3.3 from -3.3 to 6.6 from 6.6 to -3.3 max 3.6 from -3.6 to 7.2 from 7.2 to -3.6 Vcc is derived from range (denoted Vpower below) Vout changes from ( Vground - Vpower ) to (Vpower + Vpower ) (see spec.) e.g. from ( 0 - Vcc ) to 2*Vcc e.g. from -Vcc to 2*Vcc Vtable = Vcc - Vout Conclusion: spec is inconsistent in this part. Nikolai Bannov Hspice group Avant! Corporation :-) From owner-ibis@server.eda.org Wed Jan 5 12:36 PST 2000 :-) From: "Ross Pryor" :-) To: "'Stephen Nolan'" , :-) Subject: RE: IBIS model creation :-) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:33:28 -0500 :-) MIME-Version: 1.0 :-) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit :-) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) :-) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal :-) Importance: Normal :-) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 :-) :-) Stephen, :-) :-) The data are tabulated after the vcc-relative calculation, vtable=vcc-vout. After the calculation, the data have the same range. :-) For a pullup curve, the following table may help: :-) :-) (vout) (vtable) :-) sweep vcc-relative :-) corner vcc range range :-) ------ --- ----- ------------- :-) min 3.0 -3.6 > 6.3 6.6 > -3.3 :-) typ 3.3 -3.3 > 6.6 6.6 > -3.3 :-) max 3.6 -3.0 > 6.9 6.6 > -3.3 :-) :-) Regards, :-) Ross :-) -------------- :-) Ross Pryor :-) Nortel Networks :-) Billerica, MA :-) (978) 288-3811 :-) ESN 248-3811 :-) rpryor@nortelnetworks.com :-) From owner-ibis Thu Jan 6 11:44:21 2000 Received: from soran.bos.ascend.com (soran.bos.ascend.com [152.148.40.24]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA11676 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:44:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rawhide.bos.ascend.com (rawhide [152.148.140.32]) by soran.bos.ascend.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11317 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:41:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from fox.bos.ascend.com (fox.bos.ascend.com [152.148.141.238]) by rawhide.bos.ascend.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA16311 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by fox.bos.ascend.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:42:38 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ruston, Matt" To: "'ibis-users@eda.org'" Subject: FW: cPCI generic 5V Ibis Models Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:42:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sent to ibis-users instead of just ibis distribution: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ruston, Matt > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:00 AM > To: 'ibis@eda.org' > Subject: cPCI generic 5V Ibis Models > > All: > > Hi. I'm trying to do 5V Compact PCI sims and am in need of strong and > weak models. In the cPCI draft spec (PICMG 2.0 D3.0) dated July 21, 1999, > there is reference in Appendix A (Pg 79) to models and they plot the I-V > curves referenced to the min-max specs. Does anyone have these models > (either Ibis or Spice) and can they forward them to me? If not, does > anyone have anything that is close to covering the full range of the cPCI > 5V signaling specs? > > Thanks in advance... > > > Matt > > Matt Ruston (mruston@lucent.com) > Lucent Technologies CNS > Voice: (508) 486-2188 > Fax: (508) 486-2126 > > From owner-ibis Thu Jan 6 11:44:48 2000 Received: from southpass.baynetworks.com (ns2.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.16]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA11681 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h8754.s84f5.BayNetworks.COM [132.245.135.84]) by southpass.baynetworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22408; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (pobox.engeast.baynetworks.com [192.32.61.6]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24121; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:37:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com (dhcp149-126 [192.32.149.126]) by pobox.engeast.BayNetworks.COM (SMI-8.6/BNET-97/04/24-S) with SMTP id OAA09537; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:42:01 -0500 for Reply-To: From: "Ross Pryor" To: , Subject: RE: IBIS model creation Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:44:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01bf587e$83bba6a0$7e9520c0@rpryor-lt.engeast.baynetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200001061851.KAA03486@av20121.svd.avanticorp.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Well, the arithmetic in my table is correct. Note that the Max and Min rows do not use a vout sweep range of exactly -vcc to 2*vcc. Instead, they use a range that is adjusted to make the vcc-relative data (vtable) line up. That makes the post-processing of the data much easier, and I suspect that's why the s2ibis2 author(s) implemented it this way. In your table, you are using exactly -vcc to 2*vcc for the min and max rows. As you note, the vcc-relative (vtable) data then do not cover the same range. In a quick search, I can't find where the voltage range is explicitly defined in the spec. Can you provide a pointer? Regards, Ross -----Original Message----- From: nikolai@avanticorp.com [mailto:nikolai@avanticorp.com] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:51 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: IBIS model creation Happy new year IBISians, It's kind of silly but I can not reproduce arithmetics from the attached email. Here is mine: Vcc Vout Vtable min 3.0 from -3.0 to 6.0 from 6.0 to -3.0 typ 3.3 from -3.3 to 6.6 from 6.6 to -3.3 max 3.6 from -3.6 to 7.2 from 7.2 to -3.6 Vcc is derived from range (denoted Vpower below) Vout changes from ( Vground - Vpower ) to (Vpower + Vpower ) (see spec.) e.g. from ( 0 - Vcc ) to 2*Vcc e.g. from -Vcc to 2*Vcc Vtable = Vcc - Vout Conclusion: spec is inconsistent in this part. Nikolai Bannov Hspice group Avant! Corporation :-) From owner-ibis@server.eda.org Wed Jan 5 12:36 PST 2000 :-) From: "Ross Pryor" :-) To: "'Stephen Nolan'" , :-) Subject: RE: IBIS model creation :-) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:33:28 -0500 :-) MIME-Version: 1.0 :-) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit :-) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) :-) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal :-) Importance: Normal :-) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 :-) :-) Stephen, :-) :-) The data are tabulated after the vcc-relative calculation, vtable=vcc-vout. After the calculation, the data have the same range. :-) For a pullup curve, the following table may help: :-) :-) (vout) (vtable) :-) sweep vcc-relative :-) corner vcc range range :-) ------ --- ----- ------------- :-) min 3.0 -3.6 > 6.3 6.6 > -3.3 :-) typ 3.3 -3.3 > 6.6 6.6 > -3.3 :-) max 3.6 -3.0 > 6.9 6.6 > -3.3 :-) :-) Regards, :-) Ross :-) -------------- :-) Ross Pryor :-) Nortel Networks :-) Billerica, MA :-) (978) 288-3811 :-) ESN 248-3811 :-) rpryor@nortelnetworks.com :-) From owner-ibis Thu Jan 6 12:32:35 2000 Received: from hebe.or.intel.com (hebe.or.intel.com [134.134.248.4]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA11892 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:32:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (ichips-jf.jf.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by hebe.or.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.17 2000/01/06 00:19:44 nzand Exp $) with ESMTP id MAA12059; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:42:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from xtg801.pdx.intel.com (xtg801.pdx.intel.com [134.134.114.35]) by ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: internal.m4,v 1.2 1998/11/09 19:18:37 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id MAA02453; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:31:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com (localhost.pdx.intel.com [127.0.0.1]) by xtg801.pdx.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: client.m4,v 1.3 1998/09/29 16:36:11 sedayao Exp sedayao $) with ESMTP id MAA02287; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:10:51 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200001062010.MAA02287@xtg801.pdx.intel.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: nikolai@avanticorp.com cc: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: IBIS model creation In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 06 Jan 2000 10:51:00 PST." <200001061851.KAA03486@av20121.svd.avanticorp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:10:51 -0800 From: Stephen Peters Hello Nick: Take a look at your Vout data. -3.0 to 6.0 is the sweep range for the 'max' (Vcc = 3.6v) case but you are applying it to the 'min' (Vcc = 3.0v) row. Likewise for the max row. Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. > > > Happy new year IBISians, > > It's kind of silly but I can not reproduce arithmetics > from the attached email. Here is mine: > > > Vcc Vout Vtable > > min 3.0 from -3.0 to 6.0 from 6.0 to -3.0 > > > typ 3.3 from -3.3 to 6.6 from 6.6 to -3.3 > > > max 3.6 from -3.6 to 7.2 from 7.2 to -3.6 > > > Vcc is derived from range (denoted Vpower below) > > Vout changes from ( Vground - Vpower ) to (Vpower + Vpower ) > (see spec.) e.g. from ( 0 - Vcc ) to 2*Vcc > e.g. from -Vcc to 2*Vcc > > Vtable = Vcc - Vout > > Conclusion: spec is inconsistent in this part. > > Nikolai Bannov > Hspice group > Avant! Corporation > > :-) From owner-ibis@server.eda.org Wed Jan 5 12:36 PST 2000 > :-) From: "Ross Pryor" > :-) To: "'Stephen Nolan'" , > :-) Subject: RE: IBIS model creation > :-) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:33:28 -0500 > :-) MIME-Version: 1.0 > :-) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > :-) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > :-) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > :-) Importance: Normal > :-) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 > :-) > :-) Stephen, > :-) > :-) The data are tabulated after the vcc-relative calculation, vtable=vcc-vout. After the calculation, the data have the same range. > :-) For a pullup curve, the following table may help: > :-) > :-) (vout) (vtable) > :-) sweep vcc-relative > :-) corner vcc range range > :-) ------ --- ----- ------------- > :-) min 3.0 -3.6 > 6.3 6.6 > -3.3 > :-) typ 3.3 -3.3 > 6.6 6.6 > -3.3 > :-) max 3.6 -3.0 > 6.9 6.6 > -3.3 > :-) > :-) Regards, > :-) Ross > :-) -------------- > :-) Ross Pryor > :-) Nortel Networks > :-) Billerica, MA > :-) (978) 288-3811 > :-) ESN 248-3811 > :-) rpryor@nortelnetworks.com > :-) > From owner-ibis Thu Jan 6 12:36:12 2000 Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA11908 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:36:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from SMTP (fmsmsxvs05-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.205]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.17 2000/01/06 00:19:44 nzand Exp $) with SMTP id QAA26830 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:35:13 GMT Received: from fmsmsx28.FM.INTEL.COM ([132.233.48.28]) by 132.233.48.205 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:35:16 0000 (GMT) Received: by fmsmsx28.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:35:15 -0800 Message-ID: <4575832C8E71D111AC4100A0C96B512704A79B93@fmsmsx36.fm.intel.com> From: "Muranyi, Arpad" To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: IBIS model creation Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 12:35:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The problem with the IBIS spec is that it does not say that the ranges should be calculated based on the typical Vcc values. So keeping that in mind here is an example (for a 5V device with 5% tolerance) that works. IV curve range for pullup: On the high end: GND_rel_typ = Vcc_typ - -Vcc_typ 10.00 = 5.00 - -5.00 GND_rel_min = Vcc_min - -Vcc_typ 9.75 = 4.75 - -5.00 GND_rel_max = Vcc_max - -Vcc_typ 10.25 = 5.25 - -5.00 On the low end: GND_rel_typ = Vcc_typ - 2*Vcc_typ -5.00 = 5.00 - 10.00 GND_rel_min = Vcc_min - 2*Vcc_typ -5.25 = 4.75 - 10.00 GND_rel_max = Vcc_max - 2*Vcc_typ -4.75 = 5.25 - 10.00 Notice that the range for the sweep is -Vcc(typ) to 2*Vcc(typ) for each case with respect to the typ., min., and max. Vcc voltage. The problem is when people want to make the range -Vcc(min) to 2*Vcc(min) and -Vcc(max) to 2*Vcc(max) for the min and max cases, respectively. Doing that will result in different lengths for the three columns which is not allowed in the IBIS spec. I hope this helps clarifying the issue. Arpad Muranyi Intel Corporation ======================================================================= -----Original Message----- From: Ross Pryor [mailto:rpryor@nortelnetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:45 AM To: nikolai@avanticorp.com; ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: IBIS model creation Well, the arithmetic in my table is correct. Note that the Max and Min rows do not use a vout sweep range of exactly -vcc to 2*vcc. Instead, they use a range that is adjusted to make the vcc-relative data (vtable) line up. That makes the post-processing of the data much easier, and I suspect that's why the s2ibis2 author(s) implemented it this way. In your table, you are using exactly -vcc to 2*vcc for the min and max rows. As you note, the vcc-relative (vtable) data then do not cover the same range. In a quick search, I can't find where the voltage range is explicitly defined in the spec. Can you provide a pointer? Regards, Ross -----Original Message----- From: nikolai@avanticorp.com [mailto:nikolai@avanticorp.com] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:51 PM To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: RE: IBIS model creation Happy new year IBISians, It's kind of silly but I can not reproduce arithmetics from the attached email. Here is mine: Vcc Vout Vtable min 3.0 from -3.0 to 6.0 from 6.0 to -3.0 typ 3.3 from -3.3 to 6.6 from 6.6 to -3.3 max 3.6 from -3.6 to 7.2 from 7.2 to -3.6 Vcc is derived from range (denoted Vpower below) Vout changes from ( Vground - Vpower ) to (Vpower + Vpower ) (see spec.) e.g. from ( 0 - Vcc ) to 2*Vcc e.g. from -Vcc to 2*Vcc Vtable = Vcc - Vout Conclusion: spec is inconsistent in this part. Nikolai Bannov Hspice group Avant! Corporation :-) From owner-ibis@server.eda.org Wed Jan 5 12:36 PST 2000 :-) From: "Ross Pryor" :-) To: "'Stephen Nolan'" , :-) Subject: RE: IBIS model creation :-) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:33:28 -0500 :-) MIME-Version: 1.0 :-) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit :-) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) :-) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal :-) Importance: Normal :-) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 :-) :-) Stephen, :-) :-) The data are tabulated after the vcc-relative calculation, vtable=vcc-vout. After the calculation, the data have the same range. :-) For a pullup curve, the following table may help: :-) :-) (vout) (vtable) :-) sweep vcc-relative :-) corner vcc range range :-) ------ --- ----- ------------- :-) min 3.0 -3.6 > 6.3 6.6 > -3.3 :-) typ 3.3 -3.3 > 6.6 6.6 > -3.3 :-) max 3.6 -3.0 > 6.9 6.6 > -3.3 :-) :-) Regards, :-) Ross :-) -------------- :-) Ross Pryor :-) Nortel Networks :-) Billerica, MA :-) (978) 288-3811 :-) ESN 248-3811 :-) rpryor@nortelnetworks.com :-) From owner-ibis Thu Jan 6 13:35:03 2000 Received: from ganymede.or.intel.com (ganymede.or.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA12187; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (ichips-jf.jf.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ganymede.or.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.17 2000/01/06 00:19:44 nzand Exp $) with ESMTP id NAA20593; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:34:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from xtg801.pdx.intel.com (xtg801.pdx.intel.com [134.134.114.35]) by ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: internal.m4,v 1.2 1998/11/09 19:18:37 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id NAA11638; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:34:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com (localhost.pdx.intel.com [127.0.0.1]) by xtg801.pdx.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: client.m4,v 1.3 1998/09/29 16:36:11 sedayao Exp sedayao $) with ESMTP id NAA02670; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:13:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200001062113.NAA02670@xtg801.pdx.intel.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Bird 62.2 -- Enhanced Specification of Receiver Thresholds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:13:20 -0800 From: Stephen Peters Hello All: Bird 62.2 includes a minor syntax correction. For details, refer to the ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: section at the bottom. Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. ============ Buffer Issue Resolution Document (BIRD) BIRD ID#: 62.2 ISSUE TITLE: Enhanced Specification of Receiver Thresholds REQUESTOR: DC Sessions (Philips), Stephen Peters, Richard Melitz, Arpad Muranyi (Intel Corp). DATE SUBMITTED: Aug 24, 1999, Dec 28, 1999, Jan 6, 2000 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: ******************************************************************************* ******************************************************************************* STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: When specifying receiver input thresholds the current specification allows only the traditional DC derived Vinh and Vinl parameters. These two parameters are no longer adequate for describing receivers used for high speed designs. This BIRD proposes four new input switching threshold parameters: Vinh_ac, Vinh_dc, Vinl_ac, Vinl_dc. These parameters are referenced to an reference point Vth, and this reference is allowed to vary with variations in a supply. ******************************************************************************* STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: 1) The following new keyword is defined and placed in the specification just below the [Model Spec] keyword. |============================================================================= | Keyword: [Receiver Thresholds] | Required: No | Sub-Params: Vth, Vth_min, Vth_max, Vinh_ac, Vinh_dc, Vinl_ac, Vinl_dc, | Vth_sensitivity, Input_Ref_Supply | Description: The [Receiver Thresholds] keyword defines both a set of | receiver input thresholds as well as their sensitivity to | variations in a referenced supply. The subparameters are | defined as follows: | | Vth, Vth_min and Vth_max are the ideal input threshold voltage | at which the output of a digital logic receiver changes state. | Vth is the nominal input threshold voltage under the voltage, | temperature and process conditions that define 'typ'. Vth_min | is the minimum input threshold voltage at 'typ' conditions | while Vth_max is the maximum input threshold voltage at 'typ' | conditions. | | Vinh_ac is the voltage that a low-to-high going input waveform | must reach in order to guarantee that the receiver's output | has changed state. In other words, reaching Vinh_ac is | sufficient to guarantee a receiver state change. Vinh_ac is | expressed as an offset from Vth. | | Vinh_dc is the voltage that an input waveform must remain | above (more positive than) in order to guarantee that a | receiver output will NOT change state. Vinh_dc is expressed | as an offset from Vth. | | Vinl_ac is the voltage that a high-to-low going input waveform | must reach in order to guarantee that the receiver's output | has changed state. In other words, reaching Vinl_ac is | sufficient to guarantee a receiver state change. Vinl_ac | is expressed as an offset from Vth. | | Vinl_dc is the voltage that an input waveform must remain below | (more negative than) in order to guarantee that a receiver's | output will NOT change state. Vinh_dc is expressed as a | offset from Vth. | | Vth_sensitivity is a unitless number that specifies how Vth | varies with respect to the supply voltage defined by the | Input_Ref_Supply subparameter. Vth_sensitivity is defined | as: | | change in input threshold voltage | Vth_sensitivity = ------------------------------------ | change in referenced supply voltage | | Vth_sensitivity must be entered as a whole number or | decimal, not as a fraction. | | Input_Ref_Supply indicates which supply voltage Vth tracks; | i.e. it indicates which supply voltage change causes a change | in input threshold. The legal arguments to this subparameter | are VOLTAGE_RANGE (the supply voltage defined by the | [Voltage Range] keyword), PULLUP_REF (the supply voltage | defined by the [Pullup Reference] keyword), or EXT (an | external voltage defined by the [External Reference] keyword). | | | Usage Rules: The [Receiver Thresholds] keyword is valid if the model type | includes any reference to input or I/O. The Vinh_ac, Vinh_dc, | Vinl_ac, Vinh_dc and Vth subparameters are required and | override the Vinh, Vinl, Vinh+/- and Vinl+/- subparameters | declared under the [Model] or [Model Spec] keywords. The | Vth_min, Vth_max, Vth_sensitivity and Input_Ref_Supply | subparameters are optional. However, if the Vth_sensitivity | subparameter is present then the Input_Ref_Supply | subparameter must also be present. | | Subparameter Usage Rules: | Numerical arguments are separated from their associated | subparameter by an equals sign (=); white space around the | equals sign is optional. The argument to the | Input_Ref_Supply subparameter is separated from the | subparameter by white space. | | Vth at Minimum or Maximum Operating Conditions: | As described above, the Vth_min and Vth_max subparameters | define the minimum and maximum input threshold values under | typical operating conditions. There is no provision for | directly specifying Vth under minimum or maximum operating | conditions. Instead, these values are calculated using | the following equation: | | Vth(min/max) = Vth* + [(Vth_sensitivity) X (change in supply voltage)] | | where Vth* is either Vth, Vth_min or Vth_max as appropriate, | and the supply voltage is the one indicated by the | Input_Ref_Supply subparameter. | | | Differential Receivers: | For a single ended receiver the numerical values of Vth, | Vth_min and Vth_max are specified with respect to 0v. | However, if the [Receiver Threshold] keyword is describing | a differential receiver (i.e. is part of a [Model] statement | that describes a pin listed in the [Diff Pin] keyword), then | Vth is typically assigned a value of zero volts and the | Vth_min and Vth_max parameters are not used. The values of | Vinh_* and Vinl_* subparameters are still given as an | offset from Vth and become, in effect, the more traditional | Vdiff. | | Examples: | | A basic 3.3v single ended receiver using only the required | subparameters | Vth = 1.5v Vinh_ac = +225mV Vinh_dc = +100mV Vinl_ac = -225mV Vinl_dc = -100mV | | | A single ended receiver using an external threshold reference. In this | case the input threshold is the external reference voltage so | Vth_sensitivity equals 1. | Vth = 1.0v Vth_sensitivity = 1 Input_Ref_Supply EXT Vinh_ac = +200mV Vinh_dc = +100mV Vinl_ac = -200mV Vinl_dc = -100mV | | | A fully specified single ended 3.3v CMOS receiver | Vth = 1.5v Vth_min = 1.45v Vth_max = 1.53v Vth_sensitivity = 0.45 Input_Ref_Supply VOLTAGE_RANGE Vinh_ac = +200mV Vinh_dc = +100mV Vinl_ac = -200mV Vinl_dc = -100mV | | | A differential receiver | Vth = 0.0v Vinh_ac = +50mV Vinh_dc = +25mV Vinl_ac = -50mV Vinl_dc = -25mV 2) The following new keyword is defined and place in the specification following the [GND Clamp Reference] keyword |============================================================================= | Keyword: [External Reference] | Required: Yes, if a receiver's input threshold is determined by an | external reference voltage | Description: Defines a voltage source that supplies the reference voltage | used by a receiver for its input threshold reference. | Usage Notes: Provide actual voltages (not percentages in the typ, min max | format. "NA" is allowed for the min and max values only. |----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | variable typ min max [External Reference] 1.0v 0.95v 1.05v 3) Under section 2 of General Syntax Rules and Guidelines the following words are added to the list of reserved words. EXT - A reference to a voltage defined by the [External Reference] Keyword VOLTAGE_RANGE - A reference to a voltage defined by the [Voltage Range] keyword PULLUP_REFERENCE - A reference to a voltage defined by the [Pullup Reference] keyword ****************************************************************************** ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: This proposal follows the recommendations of the JC-15 committee for specifying SDRAM inputs. Update for 62.1: Specified exactly which [Model] and [Model Spec] parameters are overridden by [Receiver Threshold] and changed the wording of the "Differential Receivers:" to indicate that the numerical value of Vth is *typically* assigned a value of 0v rather than *must* be assigned a value of zero. Update for 62.2 Under Usage Rules: added the section (Subparameter Usage Rules:) describing the syntax rules for seperating arguments from subparameters. Updated examples with this change. ****************************************************************************** ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: This BIRD is a direct result of a request by the JEDEC JC-15 committee to the IBIS Open Forum to provide better specification of receivers. The basic form of this bird was discussed at a meeting in July 1999 between DC Sessions of Phillips Corp. and Stephen Peters, Richard Melitz and Aprad Muranyi of Intel Corp. ******************************************************************************* From owner-ibis Thu Jan 6 13:38:45 2000 Received: from hebe.or.intel.com (hebe.or.intel.com [134.134.248.4]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA12208; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (ichips-jf.jf.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by hebe.or.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.17 2000/01/06 00:19:44 nzand Exp $) with ESMTP id NAA15911; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from xtg801.pdx.intel.com (xtg801.pdx.intel.com [134.134.114.35]) by ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: internal.m4,v 1.2 1998/11/09 19:18:37 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id NAA12494; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com (localhost.pdx.intel.com [127.0.0.1]) by xtg801.pdx.intel.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/d: client.m4,v 1.3 1998/09/29 16:36:11 sedayao Exp sedayao $) with ESMTP id NAA02682; Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:17:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200001062117.NAA02682@xtg801.pdx.intel.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Bird 63.2 -- Documentation of Receiver Setup and Hold Timing Conditions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:17:01 -0800 From: Stephen Peters Hello All: Bird 63 is reissued as Bird 63.2 to correct a syntax usage error. For details, refer to the ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: section at the bottom. Regards, Stephen Peters Intel Corp. ============= Buffer Issue Resolution Document (BIRD) BIRD ID#: 63.3 ISSUE TITLE: Documentation of Receiver Setup and Hold Timing Conditions REQUESTOR: D.C. Sessions (Philips), Stephen Peters, Richard Melitz, Arpad Muranyi (Intel Corp.) DATE SUBMITTED: Sept 8, 1999, Dec 27, 1999, Jan 6, 2000 DATE ACCEPTED BY IBIS OPEN FORUM: ******************************************************************************* ******************************************************************************* STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: Currently, the edge rate and overdrive conditions under which a receiver's data book setup and hold timings are specified are not documented. This bird provides a way for the model creator to document those conditions in an IBIS file. ******************************************************************************* STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS: 1) The following new keyword is defined and placed in the specification just below the [Receiver Threshold] keyword. |============================================================================= | Keyword: [Tester Spec] | Required: No | Sub-Params: Tester_Vlow, Tester_Vhigh, Tester_Vth, Tester_Slew_Setup, | Tester_Slew_Hold | Description: The [Tester Spec] keyword documents the input overdrive | and tester slew rate conditions under which a device's | input setup and hold times are specified. The subparameters | are defined as follows: | | Tester_Vth is the point on the input waveform from | which an receivers setup and hold time is referenced. It is | usually the input voltage at which the output of a digital | logic receiver changes state. Tester_Vth is used as the | reference voltage for the Tester_Vlow and Tester_Vhigh | parameters. | | Tester_Vlow represents the starting voltage of the low-to-high | going waveform a tester uses when characterizing a receiver's | setup or hold time. It also represents the ending voltage of a | high-to-low going waveform. Tester_Vlow is expressed as an | offset from Tester_Vth. | | Tester_Vhigh represents the ending voltage of the low-to-high | going waveform a tester uses when characterizing a receiver's | setup or hold time. It also represents the starting voltage of | a high-to-low going waveform. Tester_Vhigh is expressed as an | offset from Tester_Vth. | | Tester_Slew_Setup is the tester waveform's slew rate at | which a receiver's setup time is specified. For purposes of | this keyword, slew rate is defined as: | | Tester_Vhigh - (Tester_Vlow) | Slew Rate = ------------------------------------------- | Time it takes to swing the above voltage | | Tester_Slew_Setup must be expressed as an explicit ratio | of voltage over time, and not reduced to a decimal number. | | Tester_Slew_Hold is the tester waveform's slew rate at which | a receiver's hold time is specified. Slew rate is defined | as above. Tester_Slew_Hold must be expressed as an explicit | ratio of voltage over time, and not reduced to a decimal | number. | | | Usage Rules: The [Tester Spec] keyword is valid if the model type | includes any reference to input or I/O. All subparameters | are required to be present. When entering a numeric value the | subparameter argument and the subparameter itself must | be separated by an equals sign (=). The argument to the | Tester_Skew_* subparameter must be seperated from the | subparameter itself by a white space. | | Differential Receivers: | For a single ended receiver the numerical value of | Tester_Vth is specified with respect to 0v. However, if | the [Tester Spec] keyword is describing a differential receiver | (i.e. is part of a [Model] statement that describes a pin | listed in the [Diff Pin] keyword), then the numerical value of | Tester_Vth is typically given as 0v. Tester_Vlow and | Tester_Vhigh are then assumed to represent the difference in | voltage between one input and the other. | | | A basic 3.3v single ended receiver Tester_Vth = 1.5v Tester_Vlow = -1.0v Tester_Vhigh = 2.5v Tester_Slew_setup 1v/ns Tester_Slew_hold 1v/ns | | A differential receiver Tester_Vth = 0V Tester_Vlow = -200mV Tester_Vhigh = +200mV Tester_Slew_setup 1.2v/1ns Tester_Slew_hold 1.2v/1ns | | ******************************************************************************* ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: Like it's companion BIRD #62, this bird is an attempt to better specify and document a receiver's functionality. It follows the convention of the previous BIRDS in that most of the parameter values are specified as an offset from a reference voltage. This technique supports both single ended and differential receivers. Note that there are separate slew rate entries for setup and hold time. When formulating this bird the authors were not sure if receiver hold time was specified under different slew rate conditions than setup time. Thus, separate slew rate entries. These two parameters can be collapsed into one if further information indicates that this is not the case. Updates for 63.1: Corrected "Tester_Skew" to "Tester_Slew" in the examples (typo correction) and fixed up the Slew_rate equation by removing the absolute value markers. Changed Slew_rate so that it is expressed as an explicit ratio and not as a decimal (following the convention of [Ramp Rate]). Clarified the meaning of Tester_Vth. Finally, under "Differential Receivers:" changed the text to indicate that the numerical value of Tester_Vth is *typically* given as 0v rather than *must* be given as zero. Updates for 63.2: Syntax correction -- the argument to the Tester_Slew_* parameter should be seperated from the subparameter by white space, not an equals sign (it's a non-numeric argument). Corrected examples. ******************************************************************************* ANY OTHER BACKGROUND INFORMATION: This BIRD is a direct result of a request by the JEDEC JC-15 committee to the IBIS Open Forum to provide better specification of receivers. The basic form of this bird was discussed at a meeting in July 1999 between DC Sessions of Phillips Corp. and Stephen Peters, Richard Melitz and Aprad Muranyi of Intel Corp. ******************************************************************************* From owner-ibis Mon Jan 10 06:33:38 2000 Received: from mail1.uunet.ca (root@mail1.uunet.ca [209.167.141.3]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA26450 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 06:33:37 -0800 (PST) From: kraahemifar@interactiv.com Received: from interactiv.com (mail.interactiv.com [207.176.193.5]) by mail1.uunet.ca with SMTP id <214711-7866>; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:32:36 -0500 Received: from ccMail by interactiv.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.11.00.3) id AA947514667; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:31:11 -0500 Message-Id: <0001109475.AA947514667@interactiv.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.11.00.3 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:42:37 -0500 To: Subject: A question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Hello Sir: I understand why IBIS models are needed. However, I am still trying to understand how the simulation of IBIS models are performed. One way of doing it is to convert IBIS models to structural models and use SPICE on them. I am interested to see documents on the simulation of IBIS components. Thanks a lot for your care and response. Best Regards, Kaamran From owner-ibis Mon Jan 10 15:48:00 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA28522; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id PAA02957; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id PAA01803; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:46:31 -0800 (PST) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <387A6F57.B72F5851@mentor.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:46:31 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kraahemifar@interactiv.com CC: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org Subject: Re: A question - IBIS Simulation References: <0001109475.AA947514667@interactiv.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kaamran: Here are a few links to uploaded documents that deal with some simulation algorithms. Other information may be available from vendors directly. Best Regards, Bob Ross Mentor Graphics Papers: http://www.sigrity.com/papers/ectc96/DOectc96ibis.htm http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/ehntan/glsvlsi.zip Presentations: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/feb99/unger.zip http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/feb98/unger.zip kraahemifar@interactiv.com wrote: > > Hello Sir: > > I understand why IBIS models are needed. However, I am still trying to > understand how the simulation of IBIS models are performed. One way of doing it > is to convert IBIS models to structural models and use SPICE on them. I am > interested to see documents on the simulation of IBIS components. > > Thanks a lot for your care and response. > > Best Regards, > > Kaamran From owner-ibis Tue Jan 11 17:12:12 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA05824; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:12:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id RAA20299; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id RAA04985; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:10:44 -0800 (PST) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <387BD495.1DEFCD07@mentor.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:10:45 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: [Fwd: Complimentary Exhibits and Demo Pass for DesignCon 2000] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0ADE42D1FF363E6488ED8949" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0ADE42D1FF363E6488ED8949 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To All: This is for people on the IBIS lists who want to just visit the exhibits for free. Note the Exhibit dates should be Tuesday, February 1 and Wednesday, February 2, 2000. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics --------------0ADE42D1FF363E6488ED8949 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id IAA13129; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:35:44 -0800 (PST) From: kfields@iec.org Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id IAA13129; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from iec.org by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id IAA28696; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:35:42 -0800 (PST) To: bob_ross Subject: Complimentary Exhibits and Demo Pass for DesignCon 2000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:37:31 Message-Id: <677.403836.893631@iec.org> Reply-To: kfields@iec.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000

Complimentary Exhibits and Demonstrations Pass for DesignCon 2000

 

Thank you for exhibiting at DesignCon 2000, we are looking forward to successful program!  As part of our ongoing attendee promotions, we are providing you with this electronic exhibits pass to share with your customers and electronic databases for the design-engineering community.  Please share this information with your team, and pass along via email to your constituents.  Should you have any questions, please contact David Erickson via email at derickson@iec.org

 

 

DesignCon, invites you to experience the design-engineering industry's premier conference and exhibition. This electronic exhibits pass provides you with access to DesignCon Demonstrations and Exhibits to be held February 2-3, at the Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara California.

 

Simply Print this e-mail, complete and bring with you to the conference for free exhibits-only registration.  Avoid the On-site charge!   Or complete the fields below and reply to: designcon@iec.org.  This pass is transferable, make multiple copies, or email it to a colleague! 

 

 

 

Exhibit & Demonstration Hours

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Exhibits

The exhibits at DesignCon 2000 provide attendees with a firsthand look at the latest technologies and solutions available. More than 100 companies will present their technologies and provide all of the solutions you need.

 

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--------------0ADE42D1FF363E6488ED8949-- From owner-ibis Wed Jan 12 09:03:51 2000 Received: from osiris.vlsi.com (relayhost.vlsi.com [63.194.140.25]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA10265; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smtp@localhost) by osiris.vlsi.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA21784; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:02:52 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: osiris.vlsi.com: smtp set sender to using -f Received: from (tem-pbx1.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.128.26]) by osiris via smap (V2.0) id xma021772; Wed, 12 Jan 00 09:02:40 -0800 Received: from vlsi.com (witsend.tempe.vlsi.com [134.27.133.12]) by tem-pbx1.tempe.vlsi.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id CMAW7VWA; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:02:39 -0700 Sender: dsession@osiris.vlsi.com Message-ID: <387CB3AF.7B6BFC@vlsi.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:02:39 -0700 From: "D. C. Sessions" Organization: VLSI Technology Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4m) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Complimentary Exhibits and Demo Pass for DesignCon 2000] References: <387BD495.1DEFCD07@mentor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder: if you don't like spam, use a throwaway e-mail address. -- D. C. Sessions dc.sessions@vlsi.com From owner-ibis Thu Jan 13 13:34:58 2000 Received: from mgw-x2.nokia.com (mgw-x2.nokia.com [131.228.20.22]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA18783 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:34:57 -0800 (PST) From: henrik.keshishian@nokia.com Received: from mgw-i2.ntc.nokia.com (mgw-i2.ntc.nokia.com [131.228.118.61]) by mgw-x2.nokia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/o) with ESMTP id XAA01498 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:34:00 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebh01nok.americas.nokia.com (daebh01nok.americas.nokia.com [172.18.242.182]) by mgw-i2.ntc.nokia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22672 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:33:59 +0200 (EET) Received: by daebh01nok with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:33:46 -0600 Message-ID: To: ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Question on ibischk3 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:33:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, I downloaded the HP version of ibischk3. What do I need to do with the file before running it. Thanks in advance, Henrik Keshishian From owner-ibis Tue Jan 18 14:02:47 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA13206; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:02:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id OAA11514; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id OAA05427; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:01:16 -0800 (PST) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <3884E2AB.887820EF@mentor.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:01:15 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS SUMMIT ANNOUNCEMENT JAN. 31, 2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To IBIS Committee: I am sending this out on behalf of Milt. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics ------------------------------------------ To All: This is the final call for presentations and participation at the IBIS Summit Meeting held with DesignCon 2000. If you have not done so, PLEASE signup with me below so we have an estimated attendence count for planning the lunch. Milt Schwartz National Semiconductor ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DESIGNCON 2000 IBIS SUMMIT FINAL CALL FOR PARTICIPATION, PRESENTATIONS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: 8:00 PM - 5:00 PM, Monday, January 31, 2000 Location: Santa Clara Convention Center Santa Clara, CA Meeting Location - Weston Hotel, Grand Ballroom C Content: IBIS Future Requirements is the main topic of this meeting These include an exchange of ideas on IBIS accuracy, connectors, and new requirements under discussion. Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: DesignCon 2000 & National Semiconductor Corporation SIGN UP FOR THE IBIS Summit by sending a note to the address below: Milt Schwartz schwartz@nsc.com D E S I G N C O N 2 0 0 0 M E E T I N G S Time/Date: Monday - Thursday, January 31 - February 3, 2000 Exhibition: Tuesday - Wednesday, 12:30 PM - 6:30 PM, February 1 - 2, 2000 IBIS Booth: #1039, Exhibition Hall - Connector Specification and Accuracy Committee Demonstration - IBIS Information - Contact Jon Powell, jpowell@viewlogic.com, for information. URL DesignCon2000: http://www.designcon.com/ Signup Discount: IBIS member companies may receive a 15 percent discount to the DesignCon 2000 Conference. Past Conference attendees also will receive a 20% alumni discount. AGENDA FOR IBIS SUMMIT The agenda includes presentations, discussions, refreshments, and a free buffet luncheon for participants. In addition, we will have an opportunity for Ad Hoc presentations and extended discussions. So far we tentatively plan the following presentations and discussions: Morning: Model Design: Tables and Equations - Lynne Green, HyperLynx Connector Model Specification - Gus Panella, Molex Afternoon: Using Statistical Methods to Characterize Receivers to Determine the Applicability of Receiver Modeling Standardization - Richard Mellitz, Intel Input Receiver Modeling - Don Telium, Cadence Extendable Macro Structures of IBIS - Al Davis, HyperLynx Ideas for Future IBIS Versions - Arpad Muranyi, Intel Discussion - Future of IBIS - Stephen Peters, Intel Adequate time is set aside for Ad Hoc presentations and discussion. Presentors, plan on 50 copies for handing out. Or else, National Semiconductor will make and bring the copies of the presentations are received by Milt Schwartz by Wednesday, January 26, 2000. From owner-ibis Thu Jan 20 07:55:34 2000 Received: from bastion.power-x.co.uk (bastion.power-x.co.uk [62.232.19.201]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA22709 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from newhey (newhey.px.uk.com [172.16.18.44]) by bastion.power-x.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA29280 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:54:31 GMT Reply-To: From: "Chris Potts" To: Subject: Built-in model Termination. Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:54:29 -0000 Message-ID: <000401bf635e$a36bf460$2c1210ac@px.uk.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal I would like to know if it is possible to add a "built-in" termination resistor between two pins in an IBIS model text file, i.e. say 50 Ohms between pins 1 and 2 on a differential receiver port? Can this be done using a resistance Matrix at the end of the model?? Any help would be very much appreciated, thanks in advance. Regards Chris Potts. Mr Chris Potts BEng(Hons). Design Engineer PowerX Ltd Tel: +44 0161 286 2000 ext 201 Fax: +44 0161 286 2202 E-Mail: chrisp@px.uk.com From owner-ibis Thu Jan 20 13:56:23 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA24904 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:56:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id NAA19238; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:54:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id NAA26198; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:54:47 -0800 (PST) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <38878425.A2AE950D@mentor.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 13:54:45 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chrisp@px.uk.com, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: Re: Built-in model Termination. References: <000401bf635e$a36bf460$2c1210ac@px.uk.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris: IBIS Version 3.2 supports the [R Series] keyword and series element constructs that would allow you to put a resistor across a differential port. You need to check with the simulation vendors regarding whether this feature is supported in their products. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics Chris Potts wrote: > > I would like to know if it is possible to add a "built-in" termination > resistor between two pins in an IBIS model text file, i.e. say 50 Ohms > between pins 1 and 2 on a differential receiver port? > > Can this be done using a resistance Matrix at the end of the model?? > > Any help would be very much appreciated, thanks in advance. > > Regards > > Chris Potts. > > Mr Chris Potts BEng(Hons). > Design Engineer > PowerX Ltd > Tel: +44 0161 286 2000 ext 201 > Fax: +44 0161 286 2202 > E-Mail: chrisp@px.uk.com From owner-ibis Mon Jan 24 13:26:39 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA15367; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id NAA20335; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id NAA26686; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:25:06 -0800 (PST) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <388CC330.FA48A206@mentor.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:25:04 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS SUMMIT MEETING AGENDA 1/31/00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To All: Below is the planned Agenda. We have room for discussions, and we also may end the meeting early. Please contact Milt Schwartz at schwartz@nsc.com to sign up, if you have not done so. Confirm the room location at the hotel. It may be listed under some sponsoring organization such as IEC, DesignCon, National Semiconductor, etc. Bob Ross Mentor Graphics ------------------------------------------------------------------ AGENDA, IBIS SUMMIT MEETING JANUARY 31, 2000 Westin Hotel, Ballroom E Santa Clara Convention Center Santa Clara, California ------------------------------------------------------------------ 8:00 AM Refreshments & Sign In 8:30 AM Introductions - Welcome to Summit - Introductions - IBIS Booth #1039 Placards - Opens for Issues, Discussion 9:00 AM Model Designs: Tables and Equations Lynne Green, HyperLynx 9:30 AM Simutaneous Switching Noise Modeling Bernhard Unger, Siemens 10:00 AM Break 10:15 AM IBIS Booth #1039 - Connector Demonstration Bob Haller, Compaq 10:20 AM Connector Model Specification (& Discussion) Gus Panella, Molex 11:30 AM Using Statistical Methods to Characterize Receivers to Determine the Applicability of Receiver Modeling Standardization Richard Mellitz, Intel 12:00 PM Lunch Ballroom D (Hosted by National Semiconductor) Westin Hotel 1:00 PM Input Receiver Behavioral Modeling (& Discussion) Donald Telian, Intel 2:15 PM Extendable Macro Structures of IBIS Al Davis, HyperLynx 2:45 PM Break 3:00 PM Ideas for Future IBIS Versions Arpad Muranyi, Intel 3:30 PM Discussion - Future of IBIS Stephen Peters, Intel 4:00 PM Other Topics 4:45 PM Concluding Items - Date2000 IBIS Summit - Next Meeting February 25, 2000 - ?? 5:00 PM End of IBIS Summit Meeting 5:00 PM JEDEC/IBIS Working Group Meeting Plans ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-ibis Mon Jan 24 13:48:03 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA15520; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:48:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id NAA22406; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id NAA01236; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:46:30 -0800 (PST) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <388CC834.290ECFC1@mentor.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:46:28 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: CORRECTION - IBIS SUMMIT MEETING AGENDA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To All: Correction - (Company affiliation correction for Don Telian) Bob Ross Mentor Graphics ------------------------------------------------------------------ AGENDA, IBIS SUMMIT MEETING JANUARY 31, 2000 Westin Hotel, Ballroom E Santa Clara Convention Center Santa Clara, California ------------------------------------------------------------------ 8:00 AM Refreshments & Sign In 8:30 AM Introductions - Welcome to Summit - Introductions - IBIS Booth #1039 Placards - Opens for Issues, Discussion 9:00 AM Model Designs: Tables and Equations Lynne Green, HyperLynx 9:30 AM Simutaneous Switching Noise Modeling Bernhard Unger, Siemens 10:00 AM Break 10:15 AM IBIS Booth #1039 - Connector Demonstration Bob Haller, Compaq 10:20 AM Connector Model Specification (& Discussion) Gus Panella, Molex 11:30 AM Using Statistical Methods to Characterize Receivers to Determine the Applicability of Receiver Modeling Standardization Richard Mellitz, Intel 12:00 PM Lunch Ballroom D (Hosted by National Semiconductor) Westin Hotel 1:00 PM Input Receiver Behavioral Modeling (& Discussion) Donald Telian, Cadence Design 2:15 PM Extendable Macro Structures of IBIS Al Davis, HyperLynx 2:45 PM Break 3:00 PM Ideas for Future IBIS Versions Arpad Muranyi, Intel 3:30 PM Discussion - Future of IBIS Stephen Peters, Intel 4:00 PM Other Topics 4:45 PM Concluding Items - Date2000 IBIS Summit - Next Meeting February 25, 2000 - ?? 5:00 PM End of IBIS Summit Meeting 5:00 PM JEDEC/IBIS Working Group Meeting Plans ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-ibis Tue Jan 25 17:32:11 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA24689; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id RAA20217; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id RAA23056; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:30:38 -0800 (PST) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <388E4E3D.9BB742D9@mentor.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:30:37 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: REVISED IBIS SUMMIT AGENDA 1/31/00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To IBIS Summit Attendees: This is a revised Agenda to resolve a scheduling conflict. Lynne Green's presentation is moved to the end. Note, some Ad Hoc presentations and discussions may be done in the morning if we have time. If you have not done so already, let Milt Schwartz know if you are attending. People who are presenting: please send the presentations to Milt for copying at schwartz@nsc.com. Otherwise, plan to bring 50 copies for distribution at the meeting. We will have an overhead projector and also a projector for laptop presentations. I prefer using the overhead projector, if practical, to maximize interaction and allow Ad Hoc presentations and discussions (and so my hand drawn slides won't look so bad :-)). Bob Ross Mentor Graphics ------------------------------------------------------------------ AGENDA, IBIS SUMMIT MEETING JANUARY 31, 2000 Westin Hotel, Ballroom E Santa Clara Convention Center Santa Clara, California ------------------------------------------------------------------ 8:00 AM Refreshments & Sign In 8:30 AM Introductions - Welcome to Summit - Introductions - IBIS Booth #1039 Placards - Opens for Issues, Discussion 9:00 AM Simutaneous Switching Noise Modeling Bernhard Unger, Siemens 9:30 AM Ad Hoc Presentations and Discussions 9:50 AM IBIS Booth #1039 - Connector Demonstration Bob Haller, Compaq 10:00 AM Break 10:15 AM Connector Model Specification (& Discussion) Gus Panella, Molex 11:30 AM Using Statistical Methods to Characterize Receivers to Determine the Applicability of Receiver Modeling Standardization Richard Mellitz, Intel 12:00 PM Lunch Ballroom D (Hosted by National Semiconductor) Westin Hotel 1:00 PM Input Receiver Behavioral Modeling (& Discussion) Donald Telian, Cadence Design 2:15 PM Extendable Macro Structures of IBIS Al Davis, HyperLynx 2:45 PM Break 3:00 PM Ideas for Future IBIS Versions Arpad Muranyi, Intel 3:30 PM Discussion - Future of IBIS Stephen Peters, Intel 4:00 AM Model Designs: Tables and Equations Lynne Green, HyperLynx 4:30 PM Other Topics 4:45 PM Concluding Items - Date2000 IBIS Summit - Next Meeting February 25, 2000 - ?? 5:00 PM End of IBIS Summit Meeting 5:00 PM JEDEC/IBIS Working Group Meeting Plans ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-ibis Wed Jan 26 09:21:11 2000 Received: from serverworks.com (mailhost.rccorp.com [207.214.102.39]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA28118 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:21:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pegolotti_marc (ws-207-214-102-223.rccorp.com [207.214.102.223]) by serverworks.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA08535 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by pegolotti_marc with Microsoft Mail id <01BF682C.0A5BC7A0@pegolotti_marc>; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:34:55 +-100 Message-ID: <01BF682C.0A5BC7A0@pegolotti_marc> From: marc pegolotti To: "'ibis-users@eda.org'" Subject: VT curves Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:34:53 +-100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi , I would like to know what is the typical loading modele that should be used to determine the VT curve for a IBIS CMOS modele ? If the output of the driver loaded is ringing or oscillating . Is is allow ? If yes , when the VT curves sampling should stop (before or after oscillation) ? What are the recomanded guidelines for VT curves in IBIS ? Best regards From owner-ibis Wed Jan 26 11:09:18 2000 Received: from oliver.al.dynip.com (root@209-63-189-49.sea.jps.net [209.63.189.49]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA28530 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by oliver.al.dynip.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id KAA09430; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:31:51 -0800 From: Al Davis To: marc pegolotti , "'ibis-users@eda.org'" Subject: Re: VT curves Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:12:07 -0800 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.20] Content-Type: text/plain References: <01BF682C.0A5BC7A0@pegolotti_marc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00012610315003.00941@oliver.al.dynip.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Wed, 31 Dec 1969, marc pegolotti wrote: > I would like to know what is the typical loading modele that should be used to determine the VT curve > for a IBIS CMOS modele ? You should provide at least two waveforms of each type. That is, two rising, two falling. The load should be as close as possible to the real load. A heavier load is preferable to a lighter load. For two waveforms, one should have a pulldown load, the other should have a pullup load. They can be the same resistance otherwise. If you can provide more waveforms, one choice is to do two more, with light loads, almost open. Another choice is a load to a middle voltage, like Vcc/2. When providing multiple waveforms, be sure that the loads are sufficiently different that the difference in the data makes sense. If the difference is only noise or random variations (such as by two very light loads) this will cause problems. > If the output of the driver loaded is ringing or oscillating . Is is allow ? If yes , when the VT curves > sampling should stop (before or after oscillation) ? If the info is real, include it. Too often, models run too long and have a long tail of noise. Include only the part of the waveform that is important. Also, too often there are too many points, that are only noise. Try taking the derivative from the points. It should match the true derivative. This is as important as the points themselves. For the pullup and pulldown, the derivative is MORE important than the values themselves. From owner-ibis Fri Jan 28 13:10:39 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA14103; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:10:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id NAA11043; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id NAA15527; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:09:04 -0800 (PST) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <3892056E.252F63F2@mentor.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:09:02 -0800 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org, si-list@silab.eng.sun.com Subject: EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit E U R O P E A N I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G F I R S T A N N O U N C E M E N T Time/Date: 8:30 AM - 2 PM, Friday, March 31, 2000 Location: Concorde-Lafayette Hotel (adjacent to Le Palais des Congress de Paris Prote Mailot - site of the DATE2000 Conference in Paris, France Rooms: Salon, Van Gogh, Pissarro Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: INCASES, Mentor Graphics and Viewlogic DATE2000: March 27-30, 2000. The IBIS meeting is scheduled the day following the trade show portion of the Conference and the PCB Symposium. See http://www.date-conference.com for more information. BACKGROUND For the last several years we have been holding very successful European IBIS Summit Meetings. We plan a combination of the following: Submitted Presentations on IBIS Topics (See below) Less formal Ad Hoc Presentations and Discussions IBIS Questions and Answers Below is an invitation to register and also to submit presentations. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate in the European IBIS Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please supply the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Send to: Karine Loudet (karine_loudet@mentor.com) +33 1 40 94 74 54 CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Some suggested subjects of interest are: IBIS Model Development Experiences Company IBIS Standards and Requirements Generating and Validating IBIS Models Future IBIS Requirements EMC/EMI IBIS Issues Format of Presentation: Overhead Projections Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Bob Ross (bob_ross@mentor.com) AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, and a free lunch. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION: Bob Ross, Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road Wilsonville, Oregon 97070 USA (503) 685-0732 bob_ross@mentor.com